Jeff Staple: What’s up, listeners? This is Jeff Staple. I just want to take a moment here and thank you all for listening to The Business of HYPE. It started as a small, simple idea, and took off immediately. And it honestly wouldn’t have happened without you. Whether it’s subscribing to the show, tuning in every week, tweeting us your favorite quotes, Instagram-ing us, or just telling your friends about us, every little bit helps. So tell your co-worker, tell your boss, tell your intern, tell your deli guy. Share the knowledge. If there’s one thing I learned from this, it’s that what you give out comes back tenfold.
Jeff Staple: So our first season was amazing, and I want to personally thank all the incredible guests who shared their time and stories with us. Hiroshi, Sarah, Aaron, Upscale, Mike Cherman, Melody, Yoon, James, Levi, thank you. If you missed any of these, I highly recommend you go check them out. And if you’ve listened to all of them, listen to them again. I guarantee you’ll find something new the second time around.
Jeff Staple: So this episode marks the final one of the season. We’re going to take a little break from here and be back in a few weeks with brand new episodes. And with that, let’s get into this week’s show.
Dominic: I guess I was always a bad influence entrepreneur, not necessarily in the best way.
Jeff Staple: Did you counterfeit other things? Were you making fake IDs and stuff?
Dominic: No. I got a fake ID at a young age, but I wasn’t making them. What else was I counterfeiting? That was it, but that was like, my creative way just into being creative.
Jeff Staple: Yeah, because you also learn graphic design and stuff and all of that, right? You’re like-
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Scanning. You learn about resolution, you learn about color matching. It’s like the best lesson.
Dominic: I guess it’s kind of like recreating a Nike or what I’m doing now. My focus is to, one, make a higher quality shoe, but make it look exactly like a Nike.
Jeff Staple: Yeah.
Dominic: So …
Jeff Staple: I literally wrote in my notebook, you’ve been a bootlegger for life, basically.
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: You’ve been a counterfeiter since 11-years-old.
Dominic: Man, I’m glad you’re bringing these points out.
Jeff Staple: From HYPEBEAST Radio, I’m Jeff Staple, and this is The Business of HYPE. A show about creative entrepreneurs, brand builders, innovators, and the realities behind the dreams they’ve built.
Jeff Staple: I’m proud to say this is the first doctor we’ve had on the show. Well, okay, he’s not a real doctor, but he does go by the title of surgeon. Dominic Ciambrone is the Shoe Surgeon. And he takes a scalpel and stitches to the skin of shoes, and does absolutely amazing things with them. It’s a balance of art and science, a delicate hand mixed with brute force.
Jeff Staple: And the thing that fascinates me most about the industry of sneaker customizers is the business model itself, because you not only need to be an amazing creative mind, but you also need to be a craftsman. You’re the factory. You’re the trend forecaster. You’re the marketer, and you’re the salesman. Customizers said to the sneaker brands, if you can’t join them, beat them. And now the sneaker brands are saying to them, if you can’t beat them, join them. But you could probably count on two hands the customizers out there that are really moving the needle. And Dominic is definitely at the top of the game.
Jeff Staple: So I got a chance to sit down in his massive street level parking garage in downtown, LA. You’ll hear cars rumbling by during the interview, so you get a sense of just how street level his operations are. Who better to speak to about this entire industry than the infamous Shoe Surgeon?
Jeff Staple: So, for the record and for those who don’t know, please introduce yourself, who you are, what you do.
Dominic: My name is Dominic Ciambrone, I go by the Shoe Surgeon. I make, I guess, custom sneakers. I would say I’m a shoe maker, a designer, an artist, just a craftsman. I mean, I think I wear many hats. Entrepreneur?
Jeff Staple: Obviously, sneakers are a big part of what it is that you do, if not the main part. Take us back to the beginning, were you a sneaker-head growing up?
Dominic: Yeah. When I got into sneakers was high school. I had an older cousin who had the original 1985 Jordans Chicago’s. And she let me wear those to my first day of freshman year of high school, and I didn’t know what they were. I had an older brother who wore Jordans, and he was more of a jock. I was going into high school, I was shy and quiet. But I wore those original Jordans to the first day of school, and I got props from the seniors, all the cool kids. And I didn’t know why. I guess I understood why after.
Dominic: And that was my introduction into sneakers. And it was being able to express yourself by not even saying anything, just by wearing sneakers.
Jeff Staple: Yeah. And where was this?
Dominic: This was in northern California. So Santa Rosa, California, which is about an hour north of San Francisco.
Jeff Staple: Were other kids in the school into sneakers, too? Like, they were rocking different shoes already?
Dominic: At the time, this was 2000 … 2002? No, 2001. And it was mostly Jordans. I was wearing the original Jordans, and then people had the retros. And I started understanding these Jordans, or the … was cool.
Jeff Staple: All right. So the Jordan affects you, right? You get the Jordan effect, so to speak.
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: And then what? You just start copying lots of shoes?
Dominic: So I got the Jordan effect, and then I started buying Jordans early. It was, for me, it was always about that exclusive feel. And it wasn’t just about having the Jordans, but stunting early. So we met some people who would backdoor some Jordans weeks early. I would put them on, wear them into a Footlocker early, and those guys would flip. So it was a way to make myself feel good without saying anything, just being like … that nod, like …
Jeff Staple: Interesting.
Dominic: And then …
Jeff Staple: So it wasn’t just about owning the shoe, but it was about the time in which you owned the shoe?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: And the exclusivity of it, in a sense?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: And you mentioned that you were a shy person by nature. So it wasn’t about you being loud and obnoxious, but you just walk in and own a room, just by what’s on your feet?
Dominic: Yeah. It was a way to get into a conversation with someone without being like, hey, look at me, even though it was, you know?
Jeff Staple: Yeah, but without saying it.
Dominic: Without saying it.
Jeff Staple: Right. Interesting. So this is my assumption, and you tell me if I’m wrong, but what you do now is like an ultra extension of that. It’s like the ultimate … Even Nike is not making these things. You’re the only one making it. And if anyone wants it, they got to come see you. Is it stemmed from that?
Dominic: I haven’t really thought of it because I’ve been so wrapped up in tomorrow that that’s, I think, exactly it. And now, I have that exclusive product, which I’ll tell you more about how it turned into me making shoes for myself, and then it was more about making shoes for other people.
Jeff Staple: Yeah. So let’s go back to early 2000s. Sneaker culture is already a bubbling thing. And I would say that sneaker painters was already a thing, too? Kids were customizing shoes, usually just by painting on them. Did you start doing that? Did you start that way?
Dominic: Yeah, that’s how I started. So after I wore the Jordans early, and then all of my friends in high school started wearing Jordans. So it was literally like, “Hey, what shoes are you wearing today?” Like, “I’m going to wear those ones.” Everyone had the same shoes. So I was like, this just doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t have that feeling anymore.
Jeff Staple: Right.
Dominic: And you can only buy so many Jordans early and do the same thing. So one day, I picked up an airbrush in high school. And this was before that I knew anything about painting shoes or anything. I just was more of an artsy kid. I was like, hey … We had Michaels. It was easy to get to a craft store. So I went to a Michaels, grabbed a airbrush, and I was like, “Hey, I just want to airbrush these, try them out.” Airbrushed a pair of all white Air Force 1 mids in a camouflage.
Dominic: And went to school the next day. The reaction that I got from everyone was even more crazy. And it was like, well, I did this. So it made me feel even better. And I was like, wow. That was my introduction into painting or making custom shoes.
Jeff Staple: Was the notion that, I’m going to flip these and sell them?
Dominic: It was never about that, no.
Jeff Staple: Okay.
Dominic: It wasn’t.
Jeff Staple: It was just about having the one of one that no one else had.
Dominic: Yeah. Yeah, it started more of just, I want to have cool shit. And then, as soon as I did that, they’re like, “Hey, can you do mine?”
Jeff Staple: And that happened?
Dominic: Yeah, right away. They were like, “Hey, can you paint mine?”
Jeff Staple: Okay.
Dominic: And I was just like … It was like a catch 22 because it was like, I wanted to have that exclusive shoe for myself, but it was like … I liked pleasing others and giving them something that they felt special about.
Jeff Staple: So you started doing it?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: And were you charging kids?
Dominic: No, I wasn’t for the longest time.
Jeff Staple: Wow.
Dominic: I come from a side where I’m … crafty, artistic. It wasn’t about charging, not until recently. Eight years ago? Damn, that’s not recent anymore. Eight years ago, I finally hit this hump and was like, it was hard for me to charge people for something, because I didn’t know how to … I didn’t know how to feel about taking someone’s money, even though I was creating and spending my sweat and life doing.
Dominic: So I had to overcome that, but it was never- in the beginning, it wasn’t about charging. I was doing other things in high school to make money … that, I guess, aren’t the best way to make money.
Jeff Staple: Like?
Dominic: I was counterfeiting tickets, and counterfeiting stuff for school. I was like the guy that would make counterfeit stuff and sell … Our school had a lot of people, but you were limited to how many graduation tickets a family got. So we just decided to make our own.
Jeff Staple: You counterfeited graduation tickets for your high school?
Dominic: Yeah, and you can sell those for $15 a piece. I mean, we made a couple thousand dollars in a few months. And for high school, that’s good money.
Jeff Staple: But you did it every year, or just your graduating year?
Dominic: No, I did it the year before me, then I did it my year. Then we did it the next year because I have younger brothers. And then I did it, the last year, my youngest brother was like, “Hey, I want to do it, too.” I was like, “All right. Well, we’re going to take a cut.” He got caught, he couldn’t walk. And then that was the end of counterfeiting tickets.
Dominic: But to go back, even before the counterfeiting and making custom shoes, I was always creative in a way where I was counterfeiting tickets. You know when you go to Scandia, what’s another word- you know what Scandia is?
Jeff Staple: No.
Dominic: You know, like a fun center where you can play games and win tickets?
Jeff Staple: Yeah, like Chuck E Cheese?
Dominic: There you go, Chuck E Cheese. So at the time, my grandma worked for HP. This is when computers were just really getting going. She sent us this keyboard that had a scanner insert in it. So I found a way, how can I use that and create stuff? So we won a bunch of tickets. At the time, also, it wasn’t just about tickets. You can then go to these Chuck E Cheeses and put the ticket through a machine, and then it printed out a receipt.
Dominic: So my dad worked at Pier 39, and we won a bunch of tickets at the Pier 39 in San Francisco. And we had three different big tickets with 3000, 2000, 1500. This is like, age 12. This is a very young age. And I would scan those, copy those, and cut them out. So then we had multiples of those. Then we would go to the counter like, “Hey, we want to get that Xbox.
Dominic: That was the creative way. That was my other-
Jeff Staple: And it worked?
Dominic: It worked multiple times until I got greedy and I wanted- I guess I wanted the most expensive thing there. And I would’ve had to put two of my biggest tickets together. So I went to some kids, I was like, “Yo, we’ll give you some extra ones of these if you can go try to get this for us.” And my brothers that were with me at the time, because we spend a lot of time on the pier, were even younger than me, four years younger than me. They knew what I was doing, but they didn’t.
Dominic: So I had some random kids go do it. And they got caught. Security said, “Who’d you get them from?” I was already out, like, booked. But my brothers, of course, they got my brothers and brought them to my dad’s office, because he was a vice president of Pier 39 restaurants. And I knew when I got back, I was going to be fucked.
Jeff Staple: Did your dad get in trouble?
Dominic: No, he didn’t get in trouble. I mean, he let me …
Jeff Staple: He gave it to you?
Dominic: He gave it to me, for sure. Because I’m the older brother, I shouldn’t be setting those … I guess I was always a bad influence entrepreneur, not necessarily in the best way.
Jeff Staple: Did you counterfeit other things? Were you making fake IDs and stuff?
Dominic: No. I got a fake ID at a young age, but I wasn’t making them. What else was I counterfeiting? That was it, but that was like, my creative way just into being creative.
Jeff Staple: Yeah, because you also learn graphic design and stuff and all of that, right? You’re like-
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Scanning. You learn about resolution, you learn about color matching. It’s like the best lesson.
Dominic: I guess it’s kind of like recreating a Nike or what I’m doing now. My focus is to, one, make a higher quality shoe, but make it look exactly like a Nike.
Jeff Staple: Yeah.
Dominic: So …
Jeff Staple: I literally wrote in my notebook, you’ve been a bootlegger for life, basically.
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: You’ve been a counterfeiter since 11 years old.
Dominic: Man, I’m glad you’re bringing these points out.
Jeff Staple: Even though Dominic took his creative pursuits into some dodgy areas, his story is not uncommon amongst creatives that I know. Many start out young, being driven by things they’re really passionate about. I remember, for me, it was comic books. I’d start out tracing my favorite characters out of tracing paper, just literally copying them. Then I evolved to making new characters on my own. But copying really teaches you a lot about the technique. And if you’re applying that to something you really love, I guarantee you, you’ll learn it much quicker.
Jeff Staple: Dominic’s Hustle from bootlegging early on might be due to the environment he was raised in, but I’d like to think it’s something in his DNA that would eventually morph into the profession that he’s most known for today.
Jeff Staple: All right. So you were airbrushing shoes, right? You know what I wanted to ask you, you said you only started charging people for shoes in the last eight years, right?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: But you go back to the year 2010, 2009, there was already Sabotage, Methamphibian. Are you familiar with these people?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: People selling painted shoes. Did you see this back then? And were you like, I’m not going to do that, for some reason?
Dominic: No. I think I really wanted to perfect the craft. I really wanted to be able to be proud of a product, and sell something that would last forever. That’s, I think, one thing. But 2004, I graduated high school. Barely graduated. Moved to Charlotte, North Carolina because, with family. I went into a Borders, you know, a bookstore. And I grabbed a Sneaker Freaker book. It was the first Sneaker Freaker book, the big one. So it had chapter one through seven or something.
Jeff Staple: Oh, it’s like a compilation book? Yeah.
Dominic: Yeah. And that was like, I got that. And I saw Sabotage’s stuff. There were so many different painted … custom shoes in the back, I have the book somewhere, but so many custom shoes. And I was like, wow, this is cool. I don’t want to just paint, I want to do more.
Dominic: And then at the same time, in Charlotte, North Carolina, the south, there was already an airbrush artist in a mall, painting Air Force 1s.
Jeff Staple: Oh, wow.
Dominic: We didn’t have that in California. People were maybe … they were hand painting Air Force 1s here, up north, but it was-
Jeff Staple: The south is really the capital of do it yourself customization, like, on everything. Denim jackets, jeans, everything, you know?
Dominic: Yeah. We just didn’t have that culture, we didn’t have, also, the people that are willing to pay for something like that. And I ran into a guy, a painter guy that painted the Super Bowl cleats for the Charlotte … Carolina Panthers, sorry, in 2004. So we made a connection. And then I was reading that book, and I was just diving into it more, just seeing what else was out there in the world. Internet was still slow. It wasn’t that easy to search the web. I was driving around to all of the malls in Charlotte. They had a lot of malls. And you had polar opposites.
Dominic: You had the most expensive high end mall, and then you had the … a mall that had bootleg Nikes and bootleg Bape-
Jeff Staple: What were you looking for in those malls?
Dominic: Inspiration. For me, that’s how I got into it. I loved going to the malls. Not anymore, but it’s like, I loved going the malls and just getting this energy. Just seeing what was going on in the malls, because that’s where people were hanging out at the time. And just seeing the- man, what was that store? It’s on the east coast. You know, where they carry, like, Ed Hardy jeans?
Jeff Staple: The Buckle?
Dominic: No, not Buckle. There’s some other one that … The Downtown …
Jeff Staple: Downtown Locker Room?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Yeah.
Dominic: I don’t know, I never could spend money there. But it was just like, it inspired me. I mean, it was a new type of fashion but …
Jeff Staple: Yeah. And then when did you decide, I’m going to start deconstructing and bringing a knife to a shoe?
Dominic: When I was in Charlotte, I started painting. And then I started gluing stuff on top. I wasn’t happy with it. So then I went to this-
Jeff Staple: Hold on, you’re buying shoes with your own money?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: And then experimenting, and not liking what you’re doing? You’re basically fucking up on these samples, essentially.
Dominic: Yeah. I spent a lot of money on messing up. Like people spend money on school, I spent probably hundreds of thousands on fuck ups.
Jeff Staple: Wow. Did you go to college?
Dominic: No.
Jeff Staple: Okay. So your college tuition was spent on shoes?
Dominic: Yeah. I think it’s probably the same. You don’t understand. Like, how do I learn what you learn? And that’s why I start teaching. But I spent a lot of money.
Jeff Staple: What were you doing for income at the time?
Dominic: North Carolina … What was I doing? I was working for my uncle, doing yard work. I got into partying and drinking, and then doing nothing, being lazy. But then, that’s when my time when, my out time, I was just traveling around, trying to find the next thing. And then I got a job at Harris Teeter. You’re familiar with Harris Teeter?
Jeff Staple: No.
Dominic: It’s like a Safeway or Vons.
Jeff Staple: Okay.
Dominic: That was one of my first jobs. And doing that-
Jeff Staple: Not a whole lot of money, I would assume, making money at Harris Tweeters?
Dominic: No. I mean, no. I couldn’t even tell you how much it was at the time. It was just something to make some money and pass some time away. Whenever I did get a job, I would always give it 100%. And I would move up in the, whatever it was, from bagger to the next, I don’t know level, to clerk.
Dominic: But then I got a job at No Fear in Charlotte because I used to have this long, wavy hair. I looked like a surfer. I was … a white boy in North Carolina. Had a SoCal tattoo at the time. I was going up an escalator at a mall because I spent a lot of time at the mall. And there was this No Fear store which, if it was in California, I would’ve hated it. But since it was over there-
Jeff Staple: It was different?
Dominic: Yeah, it was different. They had these SoCal T-shirts. Anyways, the guy, the manager of the store saw me going up the escalator with a SoCal tattoo because I was like this, you know? And he’s like, “Hey, I want you to- yo, you have the look. Come be my assistant manager.” I was like, “Okay.”
Dominic: So then I got a job in the mall, which was cool for me at the time, because then I started bringing my shoes in there while I was customizing, and just displaying them.
Jeff Staple: In the No Fear store?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: That’s [crosstalk 00:22:14]-
Dominic: It was custom Air Force 1s in the No Fear store.
Jeff Staple: Wow. How much were you selling them for?
Dominic: Maybe $120.
Jeff Staple: But you’d have to buy the shoe for-
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: So what’d you make, like, 20 bucks?
Dominic: Right. I mean, not even, because you do your labor and that. But that was the introduction, I think.
Jeff Staple: That’s amazing.
Dominic: Yeah, it’s been a long journey.
Jeff Staple: Ego. It’ll get in your way if you let it, trust me. Actually, trust Dominic. You can always find someone who will tell you something that you’re doing isn’t cool. Dominic was working at a No Fear store in the mall. I don’t think he needed to ask many people to hear negative feedback, but that didn’t concern him. It was about the opportunity and the visibility. And I think Dominic instinctively knew it.
Jeff Staple: When I interviewed him, we were sitting in his massive factory in downtown, LA, surrounded by insane kicks, expensive equipment, beautiful furniture, a sick ride, his lovely wife, and almost half a million Instagram followers. You think he had this in mind when he filled out that job application at the mall? If his prerogative was to get all of this on his first try, he would’ve definitely failed. He knew this wasn’t the finish line. It was like me busing tables at a Chinese restaurant, or Drake on Degrassi High.
Jeff Staple: You, as an entrepreneur, won’t be eternally tied to your humble beginnings. You aren’t defined by those things unless you let it happen. No fear was just a stepping stone and a lesson learned. You write your story, nobody else.
Jeff Staple: Were you starting to gain an audience, a fan base, out of the No Fear store in the mall?
Dominic: Not necessarily from the No Fear store in the mall, but I became good at networking and the other side of business, and just talking and communicating with people. I did a lot of painted custom sneakers, so I had a little portfolio. And I would go around to all the malls and meet all the managers of stores, and start … Definitely started getting some type of fan base, yeah.
Jeff Staple: But this is pre any sort of Instagram type thing? You didn’t have a following digitally, right?
Dominic: Nope. We had talk, but I wasn’t on it that hard. I was just getting to understand it. And then looking at other cus tomizers at the time and what they were doing. And yeah. But your question was, when did I start taking the shoe apart?
Dominic: In North Carolina, Charlotte, I went into a store, which was the Niche Market. So his store was unlike any store I’ve ever seen. They were selling Stussy when it was at the early, early ages. It was the more higher end street wear. I came from Von Dutch jeans, to trucker hats, to then, learning more about a little bit nicer kind of dressing.
Dominic: I went to this store, and I said, “Hey, I make custom shoes.” Showed them the stuff. I was like, “If you give me something, I’ll do something for you.” And he’s like, “Yeah, yeah, I’ve heard this before.” He’s like, “Yeah, you’re going to put some rhinestones on Air Force 1s, or do something like that.” I was like, “No, no, no. Give me any shoe.” He gave me a Vans Chukka, size seven, all white, because he was never going to sell that size. But he gave it to me. I was like, all right. Then he gave me some of his assets for the logos. And I came up with a few different designs, messed with his logo.
Dominic: And then I randomly came across a Tandy leather, which was my introduction to leather that I didn’t know existed. I had some stuff lasered. I had some leather lasered with their logos and stuff, cut it out, and I brought it to a shoe repair shop. I said, “Hey, can you stitch this on?” Not thinking too much. And they’re like, “Yeah.” A few days later, I got it back, and I was just blown away that they were able to sew on top of the shoe with leather. Brought those shoes back to the store and the guy was pretty blown away. They were like, “I’ve never seen this,” you know?
Jeff Staple: It’s a Tandy Leather Vans?
Dominic: Yeah. A lasered Tandy Leather Vans.
Jeff Staple: Yeah.
Dominic: Yeah. Because, oh, man, that Sneaker Freaker book had the early days of Chris Maze, and all the lasering stuff. So I was so inspired about lasering. It was like, manifesting it as it happened. I was … That Sneaker Freaker book was, I think, one big point in my life that really got me into seeing all the Sabotage, Methamphibian. I looked up to those guys so much. And I’d never felt like a painter artist. To set myself apart, I needed to figure out something else out.
Jeff Staple: Did you have any sort of sewing background at all at that point?
Dominic: My grandma, for my senior gift, bought me a home sewing machine. So in high school, I was doing screen printing a little bit. I hated it. But then I was cutting things out of a shirt and laying them, with sewing myself. So I guess that was my introduction to sewing.
Jeff Staple: Okay. You knew how to use thread, needle, scissors, and X-Acto blades.
Dominic: And a sewing machine. Yeah, yeah, I was always crafty, I guess.
Jeff Staple: Right. Where does it go from there? You’re selling the shoes out of No Fear. You made the shoe for the niche- what’s it called? The niche-
Dominic: The Niche Market.
Jeff Staple: The Niche Market. And then how does it go to the next plateau?
Dominic: I moved back to northern California, and then I started searching out shoe repair because that was my last encounter with the custom shoe that we did ourselves. Even though I had the shoe repair shop do it. And then I started reaching out to all the- I’d just walk into a shoe repair shop and say, “Hey, I want to learn more about these machinery.” I was so inspired after coming back. The first guy was just like, “Fuck you, get out of here.” He was an older guy.
Dominic: I mean, I’m sure you know, shoe repair is a dying craft and it’s not the best … They’re around chemicals, they’re fixing shoes for $5. It’s not the best industry. I mean, don’t get me wrong. Some of them make a lot of money, but it’s a rough job.
Jeff Staple: It’s a lot of labor.
Dominic: Yeah. It’s pretty intense. So I got turned down by a few of those, they were disinterested. And then finally went to the third guy, and I was like, “Hey, I want to learn how to sew shoes. I want to learn how to make sneakers.” And he was willing to at least tell me, like, “Oh, this machine does this, this does that.” He helped me find the machine that would sew on top of the shoe. And then I was like, “Hey, I want to learn from you.” And he’s kind of like, “Well, I don’t really know you. You can be a liability, especially being in California. Everyone sues everyone.”
Dominic: And it kind of bummed me out. He helped me get the machine. But then literally, the next day, I was watching from the other side of the counter and just, I was so fascinated by the machines in a shoe repair shop, and already got my feet wet into leather, that I just knew there was something more that I wasn’t learning.
Dominic: Then finally, he saw me, and saw how serious I was. And was like, “Okay, well, you can come watch.”
Jeff Staple: Were you just the annoying kid that just kept coming every day? And looking?
Dominic: Yeah. So he knew I was serious. I built a relationship with him. He was an older, Italian gentleman. I was just the kid who wanted to learn. And that was my first experience with someone giving me a chance, because many people cursed me away.
Jeff Staple: It’s always fascinating to hear stories about how certain people handle rejection. Do not minimize, for one second, what happened here. Dominic sought out assistance and mentorship repeated times, and was rejected repeated times. Here’s a newsflash. He could’ve given up, and that would’ve been the most normal, human thing for him to do. His homie might even have said, “Bro, you’re trying to get into a dying industry with a bunch of old geezers who won’t give you the time of day. Maybe it’s time to move on.” And let me tell you, I hear that story of someone giving up every damn day. In fact, it’s the typical story. Dominic’s story is anything but typical.
Jeff Staple: When I first started Staple in ‘97, my idol and hero, Bobbito Garcia, had a small boutique in the East Village called Bobbito’s Footwork. The store was no bigger than the recording studio that I’m sitting in right now. But for whatever reason, it was my main goal to have Staple in that shop. So I scheduled an appointment to see him, to show him the Staple line, and he showed up three hours late. I just sat in a store for three hours. And just to paint the picture even more, I think I sat on a milk crate the entire time.
Jeff Staple: When he finally came in, he flat out rejected the entire line in 10 minutes, in front of the entire staff. Said he wasn’t feeling it. I literally walked out in tears from that experience. But you best believe I’d eventually get Staple into that store. And it was that small lesson that would fuel Staple for the next 20 years to come.
Dominic: But this was shoe repair, so there was still so much I needed to learn. I got that first sewing machine that was- literally, it’s just sewing on top of a shoe, which isn’t what I do now. And that’s like what they were doing back in New York, sewing the Gucci checks on with the patching machine, which I learned so much just doing that in itself. Then I started putting boot soles on Vans and sneakers with his help. I learned how to take soles off Red Wings and re-sole Red Wings, which got me really into boots.
Jeff Staple: Were you working for him?
Dominic: Not getting paid. What was I doing for money? I don’t even know if I can talk about that.
Jeff Staple: Okay. So needless to say, you were doing things for money that you can’t talk about on the air? … You won’t even answer the question?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Yeah?
Dominic: Yup.
Jeff Staple: Okay.
Dominic: I’m trying to figure out how to answer that one. Yeah, no. As soon as I moved back to California, I was working at a gym. And then I started selling supplements, workout supplements that I don’t know how I got. So I was always just … yeah.
Jeff Staple: Okay. Did you go away for doing this ever?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Okay. I didn’t know that.
Dominic: Yeah. Well, no one does.
Jeff Staple: Oh, okay.
Dominic: Well, people know, but not the close ones. I was trying to figure out if I want that to get out.
Jeff Staple: You’d be my second interview- oh, no, third interviewee that went to jail.
Dominic: No, let’s keep it.
Jeff Staple: Okay. So you were just sort of making money in illicit ways, but also, you have this passion at the same time.
Dominic: Yeah. I had the passion, so I was focusing on that. Then I got into partying, started to help friends throwing parties, screen printing T-shirts. And then I was always at the shoe repair shop, bringing my own shoes, and just trial and error. Had the machine that my dad actually bought for me at the time, as an investment. It was a $3500 sewing machine, but he made me write out a business plan, and all these things that I couldn’t even grasp. The business plan looked great except for the numbers part, because I was always bad at the numbers.
Dominic: So I was also following my passion and just creating. That was when Instagram started. You’ll see my earliest photo is a Sperry Top-Sider with a leather bottom sole.
Jeff Staple: Okay.
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: That you made at this dude’s shoe repair shop?
Dominic: Yup. And then I was also doing stuff for- I had friends that were DJs in Vegas. So then I started sewing swooshes on top of Nikes with gator. But then I was re-covering every panel with material and making it look pretty good, like it was a fully reconstructed shoe. But I knew, still, that wasn’t the … the quality wasn’t what I wanted it.
Jeff Staple: Were you branding these yet?
Dominic: Yeah. I was putting my skull logo on there.
Jeff Staple: Okay. And you named yourself the Shoe Surgeon at that point?
Dominic: Yeah. The Shoe Surgeon name came when I was in Charlotte. Being in the east coast is so much different than California, because you have just California to drive through. Being on the east coast, you can go through different states fairly quick. So one day, I was like, “Hey, let’s go up to New York City.” We drove up to New York City. We randomly went to a Bape store. Pharrell was outside, who was my idol at the time for music, style, fashion.
Dominic: I got so inspired because I never was in … but been to New York City. Finally, I was like, hey, you need to figure out your name. And it was me, my brother, and a friend at the time. We were in the 100- no, how big are the hotel rooms in New York in Time Square?
Jeff Staple: Like a shoe box.
Dominic: Yes, for 300 bucks a night, which was cheap, but expensive at the time. And we’re writing stuff down. It was like, well, what do you do with shoes? What do you want to be known? And it came out. We just wrote down, we’re kind of like surgeons. So it originally became Shoe Surgeons, with the money sign.
Jeff Staple: Of course. And a Z at the end.
Dominic: Since then, then we moved back. Lost touch with my friend, and then it became the Shoe Surgeon. Yup. And then I started branding the shoes, the Shoe Surgeon. I started just gifting celebrities or DJs custom sneakers that, still, the quality wasn’t there. What was his name? Jermaine Dupri, Dirt Nasty, just random-
Jeff Staple: Gift [crosstalk 00:37:17]-
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Because you had these connections through the party industry?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Right.
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: And the gym supplement industry.
Dominic: Yeah. Well, that’s what would-
Jeff Staple: Air quote, gym supplement.
Dominic: That’s what would help me buy the shoes that I would be giving away.
Jeff Staple: Right. So your business plan was, sell supplements, buy shoes, give them away for free after you spend hours sewing on them?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: At the Italian guy’s shoe repair shop?
Dominic: Yeah, where … having him help me with a lot of it. But I did the majority of the sewing. But yeah, that was it. At the time, it was just … I was 21 thinking, yeah, I’m going to be a billionaire, just giving away shoes.
Jeff Staple: Wait, how? How were you thinking that?
Dominic: I don’t know. I had a big dream that I didn’t understand, I guess. And it just came to life. But I had a lot of hardships that I had to go through to understand what reality really was, and what I really needed to do to make it a business.
Jeff Staple: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Throughout the conversations that define season one of Business of HYPE, we heard a lot about the pros and cons of blind ignorance. I’ve been amazed at the unconventional path of folks like Dominic. I mean, how did that business model make any sense? Do some illegal side hustle, buy shoes with the money, customize shoes with your own money and time, then give the shoes away for free. It’s crazy. Any bank or business investor would’ve laughed in his face. But Dominic said it best. He said, “I knew I would become a billionaire doing this.” It kind of reminds me of what Steve Jobs once told a graduating class at Stanford, “Stay hungry, stay foolish.”
Jeff Staple: What was the first step into making it what we’re sitting in today?
Dominic: A big part of where I’m at today is because of Instagram. It just so happened to become a thing at the same time when custom sneakers became even more okay. Because you know, for a long time, people would consider them fake, or they would consider them-
Jeff Staple: There was a time where customizers sort of were seen as a second rate part of the culture.
Dominic: Especially Jordan Brand.
Jeff Staple: The company saw it that way, you mean?
Dominic: No, sorry. Anyone that was really into Jordans.
Jeff Staple: Oh, I see. Jordan had people-
Dominic: Jordan had Air Force 1 in North Carolina type … The east coast, it was different. Jordan heads, anything custom was like, no. It was still me. Then it was me in my parents garage just sewing on top of shoes, taking Vans apart, sewing on top of them to making them look actually like a new silhouette because I was inspired by- I got into design and more fashion through Black Scale and Android Homme. And then I was more into making unique things rather than just re-crafting or putting material on a Vans, or material on a Nike.
Dominic: I wanted to get more into design and fashion. I was going that route. I made some custom sneakers for H. Lorenzo. It’s like custom Vans, but you wouldn’t know they were Vans. We sold them, not for very much. I think they sold them for like, 750. I think I made 250 a pair. But will.i.am went in there, bought them. This was still very early stages, and not making that perfect sneaker.
Dominic: I was always the type of person just to hit people up. I don’t care if someone says fuck off or no because I’d already got that. So I was like, I’ll keep asking, I don’t care. So I reached out to Javier Laval of Android Homme through Facebook. I was just like, hey, I want to learn design, because I was so inspired by this design. This was still during the time where I was trying to figure out how to make custom shoes, going into shoe repair, then being more inspired by the design. That’s even more unique, is if you have your own design.
Dominic: And then he had me make a pair of shoes for will.i.am at the VMAs. And then he introduced me to Justin Bieber’s stylist. Then I started making shoes for them. And now I’m negotiating all my deals as an artist that used to give away stuff. And then I was like, okay, now I’m making some money. I was like, okay. So it was pretty cool. This is all happening. I’m making shoes for Justin Bieber. I happen to put shoes at H. Lorenzo. Law & Order hit me up. I made $15,000 in a month. I was like, wow, this is amazing. And I spent it before the month was over. So I’m-
Jeff Staple: On more shoes?
Dominic: No. I was partying at the time, so partying, food. Probably more shoes.
Jeff Staple: Just dumb shit.
Dominic: Yeah, dumb shit.
Jeff Staple: Yeah.
Dominic: For me, I was always- I don’t know, what’s the word? Eccentric. But I felt like unlimited, like everything’s unlimited. At a early age, when I learned about control, alt, delete on a computer, I used to have dreams that that’s what life was. You could do something fucked up and then control, alt, delete, and it’ll be okay. And to find out that’s not the case … But I’ve always had that idea that it’s unlimited, which is why my money went fast.
Dominic: So I had to make money, spend it, and then be broke and not have any way to pay rent. And then it was ups and downs of me being depressed, like, when am I going to get the next job?
Jeff Staple: Wow. So you’re doing shoes for Bieber, and for TV shows, and high end department stores, but you can’t pay rent?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Fuck.
Dominic: That’s … yeah.
Jeff Staple: Is it better now?
Dominic: Yeah, of course.
Jeff Staple: Okay.
Dominic: Yeah. I had to put myself through a lot of stress and bullshit to- I look at it now and it’s like, man, I wish I went to business school, you know what I mean? I wish I focused. I mean, that wasn’t my path. But understanding now, like my son, I’m going to have him understand more, or at least try to understand there’s … I don’t know, there’s more proper ways to do things.
Jeff Staple: Was there a point where you did a sale or a transaction where you’re like, this is crazy money now? Did you hit another plateau of income?
Dominic: Yeah. It was when I made the first Python Jordan 4. I started dating my wife, current wife. Started dating a girlfriend at time. And I made it-
Jeff Staple: Smooth. Real smooth.
Dominic: A Python Jordan 4 because I wanted to make it, no one asked me to make it. I had a friend that worked at Super at the time, she was doing- I don’t remember her role, marketing or something. And Joy Claire, made her a pair. I asked her, I said, “Hey, what’s your favorite pair of shoes?” She was like, “Oh, I love the Jordan 4s.” I just happened to have that Python laying around, and I created it, and gave it to her, put it on the internet. That’s when Instagram was growing, and those went viral. Other people saw it. They were like, okay. There’s other customizers similar to me at the time that were all, we were all talking to each other. We had our own Facebook group at the time. Everyone would talk to everyone. And then it started becoming a business. Then people were like, all of a sudden, it blew up, Python Jordan 4s. Python Jordans.
Jeff Staple: So people were DM-ing you to order them? Is that how the transaction was happening?
Dominic: Yeah, it was DM-ing.
Jeff Staple: And PayPal, basically.
Dominic: Yeah. Yeah, PayPal. I still have the PayPal card. I love PayPal. If it wasn’t for PayPal, I wouldn’t be here.
Jeff Staple: Was it very hand to hand like that? Like, oh, I want a size 10. Okay, PayPal me the money and then I’ll make you a shoe. It was like that?
Dominic: 50%. And at that time, I charged 500 bucks.
Jeff Staple: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And how long did it take for you to make a shoe?
Dominic: It took me … fuck, man, it took months sometimes.
Jeff Staple: Months?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: So people would have to pay their deposit and then wait months for it?
Dominic: Yeah. That was my foot into business. Justin Bieber would get them the next day.
Jeff Staple: Yeah.
Dominic: I don’t know if it was because it was Justin Bieber or- they needed it next day, you know what I mean? They had to show the next day.
Jeff Staple: I see, yeah.
Dominic: It was more urgent. But then, out of nowhere, we got hit with order, order, order, order, order of Python Jordans.
Jeff Staple: Wow.
Dominic: And so did other customizers. So it wasn’t just me. It was a group of different customizers. Then that’s what started and became an industry of custom Python Jordans. And then it since turned into other shoes, and that and that. But yeah, that was the early-
Jeff Staple: But how many people could actually do it well?
Dominic: Well, still, no one was doing it good enough. Not even myself, not even anyone else. People could make it look good in a photo, right? Instagram. Then it became competition on how to make a better shoe, or a better product. Because I hate it, I hated making custom Jordans. I didn’t feel strongly about that, to put material on a Jordan and to sell it, or whatever it was. But my focus changed from taking someone’s money and giving them a product to really exchanging energy. And me taking a step back from making a Python Jordan, but focusing on making a higher end, higher quality product. Then it was, how do I really get into how to make a sneaker the proper way?
Jeff Staple: In essence, you’re doing business, but it was honing your craft at the same time?
Dominic: Yeah. I wouldn’t recommend that for anyone.
Jeff Staple: Many lessons learned here. Dominic learns by doing things the hard way, that’s obvious. He talks about passing lessons down to his son. But maybe if he did it the proper way, it wouldn’t have turned out the same. In fact, I can almost guarantee it wouldn’t have. So these lessons, take them, or don’t. What I’ve noticed is that it’s less about doing things the right way, and it’s more about doing it, period. Dominic can now look back and have a clear understanding of how he would’ve taken a more textbook approach. It’s admirable, and he’s now teaching the next generation how to do it better and smarter. And I love that he said, “No one was doing it good enough.” Dominic’s driving focus is to better the craft and the reputation for the entire industry, not just himself.
Dominic: So that’s why I teach where I want to teach someone the right way the first time, so they can hone their craft, and they can be better and further along than I ever was. The goal is to really push and further the craft for … The same feeling I get, if someone’s inspired to want to make a sneaker, then I don’t mind giving them the proper tools.
Dominic: My only advice is, learn the craft first, then sell the product. I’ve probably pissed a lot of people off. And I had to learn the hard way on my own.
Jeff Staple: Are you happy now with your product? The one theme is, you keep saying I wasn’t happy with what I was making. Are you satisfied now you’re making great product?
Dominic: It’s still not good enough.
Jeff Staple: I have a feeling you’re going to say that for the rest of your life.
Dominic: Yeah, I agree. I most likely will, especially once I start getting into designing my own stuff, or even wearing my stuff. I’m the type of person that, I just dislike everything.
Jeff Staple: You always find the flaws in things?
Dominic: Yeah, flaws. If I make it for myself, I don’t want to wear it. At one point in my life, I was wearing Vans Lo Pro authentics, all white. And then I would beat them to the ground, so they would look so gross. And then I’d go out and people were like, “Oh, what do you do?” I’m like, “Oh, I make shoes.” And they’d look at my shoes, and like, no. So I always had to get past that and just be like, okay, yeah, you could be the crazy artist, or you can also become a business.
Dominic: So it was a struggle on being an artist, and I only wanted to be an artist. And I wanted to make one shoe, and that was it. And be known for it.
Jeff Staple: Are you now willing to accept anybody’s order?
Dominic: No. We can’t even keep up. And now it’s- the price is three times of what it ever was.
Jeff Staple: How much is it to get, if someone wanted a Python Jordan 4 now?
Dominic: 2500, plus they provide the shoe.
Jeff Staple: Okay.
Dominic: Still not enough to me, but …
Jeff Staple: Well, at your peak, how many shoes do you have on line, waiting?
Dominic: In line?
Jeff Staple: Yeah. How many people are waiting for a shoe right now?
Dominic: Well, see, now it’s at the point where I work with the biggest brands. I work with eBay, I work with Adidas, I work with Jordan Brand. I actually did a collaboration with Jordan Brand. But actual made-to-orders, 100 pairs at one time. And it’s a pretty big, constant rotation, which is also why people see me, what I do in the past few years, and then they want to get into it because they see the money that comes with it. Or that’s all they see is the dollar signs and cool factor. When for me, really, yeah, I dreamed about it, but it was really about … I always say, we’re always in search of the hidden craft because, again we didn’t have shoe making or sneaker making in the United States. So it was like, I went to a shoe repair, I tried to learn this, this. But it was still, I had to just hone most of it on my own.
Jeff Staple: Yeah. When you say you’re working with Jordan and Adidas and stuff, in what capacity? Are they sending you shoes to use as canvases, basically?
Dominic: Man, the Jordan collab was pretty big for me. Yeah, they sent me a ton of pairs. I went to their campus in Chicago. I taught a workshop class for them, for the Jordan 13. And I produced 23 pairs of the Jordan 13s that were- not auctioned off, they were raffled off when someone bought the regular shoe.
Jeff Staple: Mm-hmm (affirmative), I see.
Dominic: What I’ve built with this brand- I wouldn’t even call it a brand, it’s like an agency now.
Jeff Staple: Because that’s crazy, because it was the Jordan that got you into this back in school.
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: And now, the brand is calling you and flying you out to Chicago to do these things.
Dominic: That’s why I felt so impelled?
Jeff Staple: Compelled.
Dominic: Compelled. English was my strongest subject, actually. Math was the worst. Compelled to work with him, was because it’s a true story of how I got into it. It was a love hate for me for a while because I hated Nike. I was young. I thought … they were doing so much stuff. I hated them. I didn’t know why I hated them. And then finally, the more I just learned about, I guess, becoming an adult, it was just like, this is a fucking amazing brand. What they did, and this is eight years back, what they did and are doing is unheard of. So I respected it.
Dominic: And then that’s when I got into, okay, how do I re-craft the shoe to also provide a product that they enjoy, you know what I mean? They see it and they’re like, okay, that this guy really cares about the product as well.
Jeff Staple: Right. Talk about, how does a Jordan just hit you up? How does that first point of contact, how do you feel when you get that first- what was it, a phone call, email, DM, comment? What the hell was that?
Dominic: I worked with other brands before Jordan, but Jordan Brand came through, building a relationship with a guy at Jordan Brand. And then Jordan Brand seeing that the Shoe Surgeon was friends with a Jordan employee, and then they hit him up. They’re like, “Hey, can you put us in touch with the Shoe Surgeon?” And my friend was like, “Well, I don’t know if he wants me to.” He hit me up, he was like, “Yo, marketing wants to talk to you.” I was like, “Sure.” And I was already fairly busy at the time. I can’t keep up anyway.
Dominic: It was a long process, because they were going through a lot of firing. They were going through people. So the first conversation with someone was- I wonder if I’m allowed to talk about this. I think I am.
Jeff Staple: We’ll see.
Dominic: The first conversation was with someone. And then that guy got let go, or I don’t even know what happened to him, and then I had to start a new conversation with someone else. It was like, we had all of these, our bullet points and this, and then it completely changed to the next guy. We missed a lot of points that we were talking to the other guy with, so things got lost, budgets changed, all these things. That’s how I got in contact through them was through a friend, through email- well, text and then email.
Dominic: But even before that, I was working with Adidas. Adidas was at a point in their time where they needed to do something. And then they started working more with customizers, artists. They had nothing to lose, so-
Jeff Staple: They’re really embracing the culture.
Dominic: Yup.
Jeff Staple: Yeah.
Dominic: And I was working, what did I do? The first project with Adidas, I believe, was soccer cleats. That had an event in Santa Monica, and I made custom cleats at their event for some of their top players, Pogba, Hamiz, what’s the other guy’s name? Some top, top players. And I was hired by Adidas to do it, which … I mean, it was cool. It wasn’t the most money, but it was cool to be associated and be recognized.
Jeff Staple: Right. Talking about the money, because they’re not now paying you just to do the shoe as a customer would, right? You mentioned you’re sort of more like an agency now. So they’re paying you an agency fee?
Dominic: Yeah, it depends on how the project works. But it’s crazy the different … The business that I started and then the businesses that start coming up. From the school, working with these brands for the school as well, to cutting apart a shoe perfectly for one of the brands, because it’s easier for them to send it to me to take apart than to try to get their factory to do it.
Jeff Staple: Right. Interesting.
Dominic: Yes.
Jeff Staple: So there’s all these different aspects that stemmed off of your core business?
Dominic: Yeah. And because of Instagram, the marketing, and the influencer bullshit. But that’s because Instagram is like … I guess, to be a part of the culture.
Jeff Staple: When you get into the weeds of a contract with a big company, do you have a business manager now that’s doing that for you? Or you’re still handling it all?
Dominic: Recently, I just brought on some help, more for business advice. But before, it was all me. I never give myself credit because I always said I hated business, and I was more about the art, and I wanted to do the craft. But I don’t give myself enough credit for the business that I’ve built. And understanding that I wore many hats from emails, customer service, to payroll on my own. Like, everything.
Dominic: And then recently, finally, finding someone that can help me get more organized, which is literally the first, this year, it’s just- that he can help me with my vision.
Jeff Staple: Literally just started, you mean three days ago?
Dominic: It was, yeah, three days ago. So I did everything by myself, with the help of my wife and friends doing things.
Jeff Staple: How big is the team?
Dominic: Right now, a dozen people.
Jeff Staple: Wow.
Dominic: But last year, half that.
Jeff Staple: Mm-hmm (affirmative). And primarily all making shoes?
Dominic: No.
Jeff Staple: Oh.
Dominic: I have a recently full-time designer, full-time video, photo, I guess I would say, marketing. I have a small team of different shoe makers. My sister-in-law is more of a general manager, who recently has been away because my brother was in an accident. So yeah, it’s like a company, like a small start-up company.
Jeff Staple: Yeah. That’s dope.
Dominic: Yeah. Thank you. I remember years ago, just thinking, oh, I’m going to make a billion dollars doing this. I didn’t know how. I had my bullshit business plan that needed a lot of work. By the way, when I wrote that business plan, I happened to run into Guy Fieri at the time, who lived in my hometown. Then he just started becoming who he was at the time, and I ran into him. I ran into him and I said, “Hey, I’m learning more about business. Would you look over my business plan?” I emailed it to him- this is random. I emailed it to him and he was like, “Oh, this is really good,” except for the numbers, of course.
Jeff Staple: Guy Fieri, the host of Diners, Drive In and Dive?
Dominic: Yup. We’re from the same city.
Jeff Staple: And you knew him from back in the day, or no?
Dominic: I didn’t know him.
Jeff Staple: But you just went up to him as a stranger?
Dominic: My 21st birthday, this girl brought me to a bar and he just happened to be there. He was like, when he was really just started as a celebrity, won that show he won. He was the first celebrity that came out of the hometown. I went up to him and I was like, “Hey, I want to learn more about the business side, too.” He was willing to. He was open. He was like, “Hey, email me what you have.” I emailed it to him. I probably still have that email.
Jeff Staple: That’s so sick.
Dominic: So many people talk bad about so many different people. But for me, I’ve had so many good experiences with different people in not even my industry, just celebrity type people, or … industry people, I guess.
Jeff Staple: From slicing up shoes at a cobbler, to outfitting celebrities, to forming a school, to having a team of a dozen people working on his vision, Dominic has definitely come a long way. But nothing in life is guaranteed. So many of the things that happen fall so far outside of the original plan. I mean, case in point, how does Guy Fieri end up in an episode? So have a goal, but have the flexibility to roll with the highs and the lows that life will inevitably give you.
Jeff Staple: Is there anyone that has contacted you to do work for them, and you’re just shellshocked? Any notables that you’re like, wow, I can’t believe so-and-so called?
Dominic: I got a job offer for Yeezy.
Jeff Staple: No big deal, just got a job offer from Yeezy.
Dominic: No, I mean, they wanted me to work for them. I’ve had a lot of job offers with Adidas, and it’s just, doesn’t make sense to shut down what I’m doing. I even got job offers- we’ve been in LA two and a half years, so two and a half years ago. But other really notables to work with … I’m sure there is. I really need to think about it. But at the time, it’s like, yeah, but then it’s like, no, it’s not good enough.
Jeff Staple: Yeah. I think a lot of people listening to this would give up their mother to get a job at Yeezy.
Dominic: Or Nike.
Jeff Staple: Yeah.
Dominic: But Yeezy, for sure.
Jeff Staple: How do you say no to that? Easy to say no?
Dominic: Easy to say no to Yeezy.
Jeff Staple: It was? It was pretty much a quick nah?
Dominic: I was like, send me an offer.
Jeff Staple: Okay.
Dominic: Before Yeezy, it was some Adidas offer for the Brooklyn Farm. And they sent me an offer. It was decent. You couldn’t live in New York. I mean, you know. The amount was definitely not … We would not have been living comfortably in New York. Which I’m sure I could’ve counter-offered, but I was like, no. So then Yeezy, because Yeezy’s now in Calabasas- or actually, they’re moving to LA, LA. And they offer the job. They’re like, we want you to work. I told them straight up how I felt because it’s the same people who keep contacting me. I’m like, I can’t just shut down what I’m doing. They’re like, “Oh, no, no, you can work part time. Adidas is about doing your thing.”
Dominic: And then the next conversation is, “Okay. Well, how many hours would it be?” They’re like, “Well, you would have to really think about what you’re doing elsewhere.” I’m like, I put so much blood sweat and tears into this, and money, and messing things up that I can’t take anything. I joke around that if someone in a company offered me a million dollars salary, I wouldn’t take it.
Jeff Staple: Not to say that you’re making a million? Or are you?
Dominic: I don’t know if I’m allowed to talk about that.
Jeff Staple: You own the company, of course you are.
Dominic: Yeah, but …
Jeff Staple: Anyway, it’s close enough that it’s not worth it.
Dominic: No, it wasn’t … It’s not the dollar amount. I could never really have a job for someone. It was, I need to create something on my own. And I can’t work for someone. I guess it’s that-
Jeff Staple: Even if it’s Kanye?
Dominic: Well, especially if it’s him. Friends design for him and they … I’ve heard all types of stories. But I didn’t care about the stories because I don’t care who it is, I can’t work for you.
Jeff Staple: Mm-hmm (affirmative). You have your own thing. You have your own baby.
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: You ever weigh the pros and the cons of, damn, stability, and 401K, and health insurance?
Dominic: Yeah, recently. I moved to LA two and a half years ago. Struggled for … one and a half years. I struggled fucking not sleeping for two nights straight to finish orders and kind of things, to be able to pay rent. And yeah. My wife was pregnant. And I was like, fuck, man, I want the stability. I thought about it-
Jeff Staple: While your wife was pregnant, you were struggling to pay rent, and you’re sewing up shoes all night long?
Dominic: Yeah. She was actually helping me, too.
Jeff Staple: That was in the last year?
Dominic: This was two years ago.
Jeff Staple: Damn.
Dominic: Just two years ago.
Jeff Staple: Okay. And you’re getting job offers?
Dominic: Yeah, I’m getting job offers. Finally, I got that first Adidas job offer for Brooklyn and-
Jeff Staple: Which is crazy because, yo, the Adidas Brooklyn Farm, for those who don’t know, when they put out we’re hiring- I know Mark Dolce. He was like, “I got 30,000 email applications.” And they offered you a job. And you’re like, I’m good with my pregnant wife, not sleeping, not paying rent?
Dominic: Yeah, barely [crosstalk 01:06:21]-
Jeff Staple: I’m good.
Dominic: Yeah, maybe that’s because of the childhood I lived is never following the proper directions. I don’t like someone telling me what to do. I’ve learned since being younger that, yeah, there are things that you have to follow.
Jeff Staple: But at least it’s on your own terms.
Dominic: Yeah, at least it’s on my own terms. But again, back to the stability, between me and my wife, we knew it was going to prevail. We’d get through. And it did.
Jeff Staple: Just in a year? In two years?
Dominic: Yeah, two years. I went through so much deep depression. I was diagnosed bipolar when I was younger. I went through so much shit and downs. Not making money for months. My wife was working a full-time job at Trader Joe’s making $21 an hr, which was pretty good. While I had this dream and I was- that’s when I started doing the Python Jordans. And she was working full-time to support that because obviously, we couldn’t keep up and we weren’t charging enough. It wasn’t really a business at the time, where she would work 5:00 in the morning, come home at noon, help me from 1:00 to 8:00 at night, however long it took to make shoes.
Dominic: And then she got pregnant. Luckily, I actually was friends with someone in LA. He’s like, “You really got to move to LA. You have to do this.” And we packed everything up and moved, and struggled for one and a half years. It still was struggling because I was trying to figure out how to maintain the business, create a perfect product, do everything on my own. So it’s still a struggle. There was money coming in, but it was still struggling to be- I was always stressed.
Dominic: And then finally, recently, I’m in a good place where it’s been, I guess you can say, 15 years. Finally, I feel like I can wake up and not have that stress on my shoulder, just because- I guess if people say, did you make it? And finally, I’m like, yeah, I made it, to a point where now I know how much I need to do to get to the next level.
Jeff Staple: Was there one singular moment where it was like … You talk about the dates as though one and a half years, it’s almost like six months ago something happened.
Dominic: Yeah, what happened? I guess it was one thing after another. Moving to LA was big. I was doing a lot of the Misplaced Checks with Geiger. But then at the same time, there was a lot of influx of people wanting to buy a custom sneaker.
Jeff Staple: So it’s a gradual thing that just culminated, basically, about six months ago?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Mm-hmm (affirmative). [silence 01:09:41] … Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dominic: And Brooklyn was a year and a half ago. I don’t remember.
Jeff Staple: Sounds right, about. Maybe two years ago.
Dominic: Yeah. Even then, it was struggling. And then working with the brands. And then it was like, okay, this is being more legitimized, I guess you would say, because the brands wanted to work. But finally, finding just the stability to work on my own terms.
Jeff Staple: So next is your own shoe brand?
Dominic: Yeah. I’ve been working on my own line at the same time as working on custom stuff. But at the same time, teaching classes. Everything that I’ve built within the Shoe Surgeon name could be its own business.
Jeff Staple: Full-time business?
Dominic: Yeah, separately.
Jeff Staple: Right.
Dominic: Separately. So we’re still running those all by ourselves. We’re slowly getting to the point where we can build a proper team to take on all of these things. But the big focus and the most rewarding thing is really going to be launching the original line.
Jeff Staple: When is that planned to launch?
Dominic: The plan is September, but honestly, the way I work is when the time is right. We’re going to develop our own outsole, which takes time. And also, looking at a new space where it’s going to be really about the experience, rather than just the product.
Jeff Staple: So everything will be housed under their classes, your own line? People can walk in and get customization done?
Dominic: Yeah. It’s still going to be by appointment only.
Jeff Staple: Okay.
Dominic: I don’t like having … I’m like the type of person that always changes his mind. When I was a young kid, my mom would buy me shoes at a Marshall’s. And then the next day, I’d be like, “Hey, can we take these back?” So it’s a constant evolution or change.
Dominic: I like the exclusivity. And I like having a place that’s just quiet, and more by appointment only. But at the same time, I definitely want to get into where someone- when I was a kid, I couldn’t afford that. So I want to give a kid the opportunity to come in and be able to customize their shoe in a store.
Jeff Staple: Word.
Dominic: So I’m trying to-
Jeff Staple: And be welcoming, but at the same time, exclusive. So you got to [crosstalk 01:12:25]-
Dominic: Well, that’s why you got to do, yeah, the best of both worlds, and figure out how to do both, which, have a decent grasp on it. That’s why we’re looking for our new space.
Jeff Staple: Yeah. Dope. All right, so big moves for 18.
Dominic: Yeah. 2018 will be the next step, and then 2019 will be crazy.
Jeff Staple: Did you bring in partners yet?
Dominic: No, no partners. It’s more like business advisors.
Jeff Staple: Mm-hmm (affirmative). But you still own the whole thing?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Okay. Have you thought about bringing in partners before?
Dominic: No. Sorry, you’re right. I did bring in a partner. You met my partner at the time, who was a friend from my small town. And it was a split equity partner. He went to business school- because me, I had a business already that I didn’t … I was always this type like, oh, I want to focus on the art and craft. And I needed more help with the business side because I didn’t ever give myself credit.
Dominic: So then I was looking for someone with more of a business mind, as I say. And a friend of mine went to business school, so I was like, okay, this guy knows business. But little do you know, there’s different types of businesses. Just because you went to business school doesn’t mean you know business.
Jeff Staple: So that didn’t pan out?
Dominic: That didn’t pan out. And I had to pay for it, but it was a big learning experience.
Jeff Staple: You literally had to buy him out of it?
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Okay.
Dominic: But being able to afford to buy him out was like, damn. That made me feel good.
Jeff Staple: Most people would find that as a mistake, but you’re like, that was dope. I got to buyout this guy I didn’t want to be partners with anymore.
Dominic: Yeah, and that’s how my wife feels, it was a mistake. But no, I felt good about it. If I can afford to buy him out and live comfortably still, it’s like, damn.
Jeff Staple: Sometimes it goes the other way, where- I know entrepreneurs that have lost their business to a partner.
Dominic: Yeah.
Jeff Staple: Yeah, like got their brand stolen from them, literally.
Dominic: Oh, yeah. That’s things you always have to be careful of. For me, I’ll never lose because I won’t ever give up. Whether it’s someone to steal my brand, I am the Shoe Surgeon, you know?
Jeff Staple: Yeah.
Dominic: I’ll find my way back.
Jeff Staple: Word, dope. All right. I think that’s good.
Jeff Staple: Hey, thanks for listening to the final episode of our first season. You can find out more about the show or listen to past episodes at hypebeast.com/radio. Subscribe to us wherever you listen. I personally use Overcast. And you can reach out to me on Twitter, @jeffstaple. Check us out on the web at businessofhype.com, and email us any questions to questions@businessofhype.com.
Jeff Staple: The Business of HYPE is directed by Daniel Navetta. It’s edited and produced by Bryght Young Things. You can check them out at byt.nyc. Engineering is by Andrei Zakow. Our intern is Carolyn Cow. This was recorded at Sibling Rivalry Studio and on location in Los Angeles, California. I’m Jeff Staple, and you’ve been listening to The Business of HYPE on HYPEBEAST radio. Sweet.
Speaker 4: That’s a wrap.
