July 14, 2010 @ 09:06 PM
VANCITY

Post: 1541

Join Date: Jul 2009

Jordan was all talent, Kobe is talent and skill, not saying that Jordan wasnt dominate, because he was, but atthe same time, Shaq needed kobe to win titles and Kobe became the 1A on his team and they still won, jordan had bad games in which pippen kukoc helped him win, alot of people dont know that because they dont watch basketball. Kobe is the most dominate player of his era and i feel he will be the best 2 guard ever by he end of his career.

And also, Kobe won 5 rings by 32
Jordan didnt get his first till 30


and jordan had a better roster than the lakers roster right now, and people believe jordan did it by him self, yall need to watch some basketball


kobe also came straight out of highschool and jordan did 3-4? i think at unc so he was abt 21
9 years to get a ship , while kobe took 3 and he had phil jackson at a much earlier age then mj... just sayin
July 14, 2010 @ 09:29 PM
Knives

Post: 863

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: BROOKLYN

kobe also came straight out of highschool and jordan did 3-4? i think at unc so he was abt 21
9 years to get a ship , while kobe took 3 and he had phil jackson at a much earlier age then mj... just sayin


At the same time, the bulls was a young squad before phil got there, pippen upped his game when phil came ,but they probably wouldve beaten the lakers with doug collins or phil jackson. and we all have to remember that kobe didnt exactley listen to phil jackson and basically forced him into retirement,kobe just recently began fully listening to phil

https://twitter.com/Animall_Mother

July 14, 2010 @ 09:36 PM
DC RA

Post: 467

Join Date: Jun 2007

kobe also came straight out of highschool and jordan did 3-4? i think at unc so he was abt 21
9 years to get a ship , while kobe took 3 and he had phil jackson at a much earlier age then mj... just sayin


Kobe's career is not over yet either so this convo is null and void until that happens. Either person can blow their knee out and its over. It really comes down to health and longevity at this point.

Kobe has more skill and talent and is the better player offensively. There is no doubt about it, Jordan took a lot easier shots so the stats are skewed. But Jordan was the best all around player and both ends of the court.
July 14, 2010 @ 09:39 PM
DC RA

Post: 467

Join Date: Jun 2007

I was with you for a bit but...

I don't even know what you are trying to say in C.

and for D....slow your roll.

Wilt, MJ, Jerry West and Kareem are ALL on top of Kobe in that regard. Listen, no matter how you put it, Kobe is not better than MJ, and probably never will be. But who cares anyways.


Wilt scored 100 points in a game and averaged 50 points per game a season because he was bigger than everybody else.

Kobe scored 81 in a game on pure skill and talent. No doubt he is the best talented and skilled scorer that the NBA has ever seen.
July 14, 2010 @ 09:40 PM
Knives

Post: 863

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: BROOKLYN

Kobe's career is not over yet either so this convo is null and void until that happens. Either person can blow their knee out and its over. It really comes down to health and longevity at this point.

Kobe has more skill and talent and is the better player offensively. There is no doubt about it, Jordan took a lot easier shots so the stats are skewed. But Jordan was the best all around player and both ends of the court.


Your def right, hopefully kobe will stay healthy

https://twitter.com/Animall_Mother

July 14, 2010 @ 10:26 PM
Pinhead Larry

Post: 1822

Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: NC

Wilt scored 100 points in a game and averaged 50 points per game a season because he was bigger than everybody else.

Kobe scored 81 in a game on pure skill and talent. No doubt he is the best talented and skilled scorer that the NBA has ever seen.


Kobe scored 81 because he had to, because his Lakers sucked, and because the raptors sucked.

I was at a bunch of lakers games that year while on trips including that notorious game against the Raptors in Jan, they were down double digits, his team was terrible, so he had to go off

Seriously, Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Brian Cook, team was a stack of scrubs.

most scorers in the game today, could score tons if they were basically playing by themselves like Kobe was that night.
July 14, 2010 @ 10:29 PM
Drebrooklyn

Post: 3757

Join Date: May 2006

Location: Brooklyn

argue you all you want but who really remembers shit Kobe did on the court. I seen MJ play his whole career and I see Kobe play as well and I still remember MJ career more
July 14, 2010 @ 11:00 PM
Knives

Post: 863

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: BROOKLYN

Kobe scored 81 because he had to, because he sucked, and because the raptors sucked.

I was at a bunch of lakers games that year while on trips including that notorious game against the Raptors in Jan, they were down double digits, his team was terrible, so he had to go off

Seriously, Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Chris Mihm, Brian Cook, team was a stack of scrubs.

most scorers in the game today, could score tons if they were basically playing by themselves like Kobe was that night.


No one other than T mac has even scored close to kobe's 81 in this era, and no player you name in this era would score 81, even jordans career high was 63, jordan is more memorable because of his sneakers, and people love to live in the past, i dont think you guys really watch ball, yall are just looking at highlight movies, people forget, jordan demanded a trade before they got phil jackson and he demanded alot of things from his teammates that made the players hate him, kobe did the same, but now hes the undisputed leader of his team, and also the same year kobe scored 81 he averaged 35 points a game, i think the closest person to him in points was T mac at 28 per...so yall need to get your stats right, and kobe still made it to the playoffs even though they lost to possibly the best suns team ever

https://twitter.com/Animall_Mother

July 14, 2010 @ 11:34 PM
It's Only Hype

Post: 5832

Join Date: Jan 2008

Kobe scored 81 because he sucked. makes sense
July 14, 2010 @ 11:49 PM
mixtape_03

Post: 2658

Join Date: May 2008

yeah makes no sense. yeah anyone with a team with a bunch of scrubs can do it. but nobody has even done it; only kobe.
July 15, 2010 @ 12:12 AM
realignant

Post: 1645

Join Date: Jan 2007

kobe also came straight out of highschool and jordan did 3-4? i think at unc so he was abt 21
9 years to get a ship , while kobe took 3 and he had phil jackson at a much earlier age then mj... just sayin


my ✖✖✖✖✖ he sat on the bench his first 3 years who you fooling
July 15, 2010 @ 12:49 AM
nestk.

Post: 230

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: wpg, mb

yeah makes no sense. yeah anyone with a team with a bunch of scrubs can do it. but nobody has even done it; only kobe.


Yes and that is why he only has one MVP and MJ has 5. MJ's EFF > Kobe's EFF. That's all that matters.
July 15, 2010 @ 01:11 AM
realignant

Post: 1645

Join Date: Jan 2007

mj revolutionized the NBA thats why pretty much every one dickrides him, don't get me wrong hes an amazing player, top3, but when its all said and done and kobes making his HOF speech, kobe will be known to be the best 2guard to ever play, and he shits on mj offensively, cool
July 15, 2010 @ 01:41 AM
mixtape_03

Post: 2658

Join Date: May 2008

Yes and that is why he only has one MVP and MJ has 5. MJ's EFF > Kobe's EFF. That's all that matters.


you do know that the media votes for reg season mvps right? you do know that kobe went through hell and back and still goes through hell with most of America while mj was loved by everyone.

if you're going by that criteria; then KAJ 6 MVPS>>>>mj's 5 mvps

if it wasn't for the change in 1980 when the nba made it a panel of broadcasters in U.S + Can voting instead of the nba players itself; you know damn well kobe would have more than one.
July 15, 2010 @ 01:51 AM
TKDESIGNROOM

Post: 419

Join Date: Jul 2010

Location: CA.

I like them both equally. Different styles.

streamzoo = redsalapao - instagram = greensalapao

July 15, 2010 @ 06:23 AM
Pinhead Larry

Post: 1822

Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: NC

sorry typo

Kobe scored 81 because the LAKERS sucked, and because Toronto also sucked

his team wasn't doing shit, it was full of scrubs, he had to go off to win the game, they were down by like 20 pts early in the second half.

anyone who saw the lakers play in that era, knew they were a lackluster team, Kobe had absolutely no help, and no consistent second score.

not to mention, when you have Kwame Brown and Chris Mihm in your starting lineup, it says something about your team.

nobody has done this shit, because they never had to..

LeBrons worst early Cavs teams are somewhat worse because his first two teams didn't even make the playoffs, but he had 2 consistent inside scores in Boozer and Ilgauskas, and when boozer left, had scoring from drew gooden.

T-mac never was on teams that bad, having played with Vince Carter, Steve Francis, Grant Hill, Yao, Juwan in the places he's been.

no superstar has played on a team so lackluster, that they needed to be the one and only scoring option for that team.

to call Kobe the best offensive player ever is just foolish and ill-advised.
July 15, 2010 @ 06:09 PM
shindo03

Post: 372

Join Date: Apr 2006

Okay.... I'm going to put this whole debate to rest:

First and Foremost I am a fan of both Kobe and MJ. So I am not being biased at all by what I am about to say. Anyways.....

KOBE

Whoever says that Kobe is not the most DOMINANT offensive 2 guard in the history of the game does not know what they are talking about. And by Kobe being the most dominant offensively does not automatically make him better than MJ! But, offensively skill-wise he is the better than MJ. I mean it really doesn't matter that the Toronto Raptors team sucked or even that the Lakers team back then sucked. The man scored 81 fing points in this era. Of course there's that whole debate on whether it is easier or harder to put up high scoring numbers after the 3 point era. Honestly I believe it is harder now even with having the 3 ball in this era's favor, especially because of all the rule changes in the paint. Not to taint Wilt Chamberlain's legacy, but I really think Bill Russell, Kareem, and a consistent free throw shooting Shaq could have done 100 in the same circumstance. I am only saying this because David Robinson did 71 in this era and I consider all 3 of those players to be more dominant than him. I mean it all goes back to the "he has shitty team" theory. When put in a situation where you have the freedom to carry your team and just go beserk, then obviously your best offensive player on the team will have high scores. This is because they are not thinking about "do my teammates think I'm a ballhog/selfish." They are just in scoring mode. But, let me emphasize the fact that it doesn't take anything away from the Kobe scoring 81.

I mean I'm a Detroit native and I remember Jerry Stackhouse consistently putting up huge numbers, like 30's and 40's. Not because he wanted to, but because he HAD to because he was on such a shitty Pistons team. Who the hell is Jerry Stackhouse anyways? (rhetorical question) But, that does not put him in the same caliber as Kobe, even if both are forced to put up numbers. I mean when Jordan scored 69 I believe he was a on a comparable team as Kobe when he scored 81. Kobe's definitely a better perimeter player and that's why he got to 81, Jordan's a better inside scorer. I hate to say this but because of that Jordan would not have been able to do 81 in Kobe's exact scenario. The majority of players that are on the single-game scoring record list were on mediocre teams, aside from Elgin Baylor's Lakers and David Robinson's Spurs(and that's stretching it with the Spurs). My whole thing is if you individually put all the great post players in the same era and circumstance as Wilt, I think the outcome of individuals scoring 100 would be a lot higher than if you put all the great perimeter guards and put them in Kobe's/Jordan's era and circumstance of scoring 81/69. I actually think I can safely say that there would be so few, I could count them on one hand. And that just proves Kobe's greatness as the best offensive guard of all time.


Jordan

Hands down MJ is the better leader of the 2. He is better defensively. He is physically and mentally stronger. What I mean by mentally is not DRIVE/HUNGER, but how Jordan could sway the game in his favor by playing mind games with his opponents. Slightly better court vision, and slightly better passer. Most of you Jordan fanatics will disagree with me saying slightly but a huge variable is that MJ and Kobe were in completely different situations with their teams throughout their careers. I mean Jordan had a better supporting cast throughout his career so obviously his assist stats are going to be better than Kobe's. We can't really prove that with Kobe, maybe with his team he just won a championship with but that was one season. Not 2008 or 2009 Lakers.... 2008 the team was too weak, thus the loss to Boston. And 2009 they beat an unprepared/inexperienced Magic team, and Kobe really had his way with them (he scored 30 or more in 4 out of 5 games, and the game he didn't score 30 he scored 29 hahaha). And don't even try and say he had a "supporting cast" with the Kobe & Shaq Era or the time they had the Mailman and Payton. Because the Kobe & Shaq Era was literally just KOBE & SHAQ and as far as the Mailman and Payton, hate to say it they were just old. Just watch that series Finals with the Pistons. Maybe that's biased because I said that I was confident that Jordan could not have done 81, but I truly believe that when he did 69 he was in comparable scenario as Kobe. Plus I am 100% sure that Kobe is a better Perimeter player than MJ, Phil Jackson said the same.

Aside from all the hype of Jordan Brand and all of his other endorsements. And his legacy of evolving and innovating the game, Jordan is very comparable to Kobe. Obviously Jordan paved the way for Kobe. And by video clips and photos, it's clear to see that Kobe is a student of the game, because obviously he mimics and mirrors Jordan's moves. But, that's what Dr. J did for Jordan, maybe not as drastic as what Jordan did for Kobe. But, Jordan did say so himself that Dr. J inspired him, and not only on the free throw dunk. Basically Kobe took the fundamentals and mechanics of how Jordan offensively played the game and fine tuned it. Without Jordan there would be no Kobe and that's the truth.



Final Verdict

Overall Kobe is better offensively than Jordan. But, as an overall player Jordan is the GOAT. Kobe plays the game, Jordan basically was the game. As corny as that sounds, Jordan would beat teams with his mind. He'd slowly but surely mentally break down his opponents. Let's just put it this way Kobe wins by his sheer own will, Jordan wins by his leadership. When Jordan passed the ball to the open Steve Kerr in Game 6 of the 97 Finals, Jordan could have made his own shot because he was having a great game (39 points). But, instead he passed it to his open teammate because he had faith in him. Now, Kobe passed the ball to Artest in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals in a similar situation. But, for sure Kobe was struggling, he ended the game with 23 points. And there was no way he was going to make his own shot with Boston's defense covering him. He passed the ball because he was struggling and Artest was open. If Kobe was not struggling and he was feeling it there is NO WAY he would of dished the ball out to an inconsistent perimeter shooter like Artest. Basketball is a team sport, and MJ knew how to implement and lead his teammates. Therefore in conclusion, JORDAN is the better player. As far as legacies go aside from Jordan innovating and evolving the game and paving the way..... Kobe and Jordan both have great stories to their legacies which are very admirable. On the side note Lebron has basically ended his legacy and him going to Miami is not admirable and shows he doesn't have a heart of a true champion like Kobe and Mike. coolcoolcoolcool BORED!
July 15, 2010 @ 08:03 PM
mixtape_03

Post: 2658

Join Date: May 2008

to not even think abt kobe being the best offensive threat this league has ever seen is just blatantly hating him for whatever reason.
July 15, 2010 @ 09:04 PM
Pinhead Larry

Post: 1822

Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: NC

to not even think abt kobe being the best offensive threat this league has ever seen is just blatantly hating him for whatever reason.


dude...we know you stay dick riding, no need to remind us

July 15, 2010 @ 10:09 PM
mixtape_03

Post: 2658

Join Date: May 2008

just stop being bitter man; you're embarrassing

any unbiased fan who has a brain knows all of your comments are out of whack; to not even put kobe in the conversation of best offensive player? are you kidding me? anyone who isn't a fan or kobe or jordan please elaborate on how you feel

July 15, 2010 @ 10:12 PM
Pinhead Larry

Post: 1822

Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: NC

just stop being bitter man; you're embarrassing

any unbiased fan who has a brain knows all of your comments are out of whack; to not even put kobe in the conversation of best offensive player? are you kidding me? anyone who isn't a fan or kobe or jordan please elaborate on how you feel



I didn't say kobe wasn't in the conversation you nitwit, but I said there were 3 people who have an argument against him

July 15, 2010 @ 10:21 PM
sargasm

Post: 739

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: LA area

Okay.... I'm going to put this whole debate to rest:

First and Foremost I am a fan of both Kobe and MJ. So I am not being biased at all by what I am about to say. Anyways.....

KOBE

Whoever says that Kobe is not the most DOMINANT offensive 2 guard in the history of the game does not know what they are talking about. And by Kobe being the most dominant offensively does not automatically make him better than MJ! But, offensively skill-wise he is the better than MJ. I mean it really doesn't matter that the Toronto Raptors team sucked or even that the Lakers team back then sucked. The man scored 81 fing points in this era. Of course there's that whole debate on whether it is easier or harder to put up high scoring numbers after the 3 point era. Honestly I believe it is harder now even with having the 3 ball in this era's favor, especially because of all the rule changes in the paint. Not to taint Wilt Chamberlain's legacy, but I really think Bill Russell, Kareem, and a consistent free throw shooting Shaq could have done 100 in the same circumstance. I am only saying this because David Robinson did 71 in this era and I consider all 3 of those players to be more dominant than him. I mean it all goes back to the "he has shitty team" theory. When put in a situation where you have the freedom to carry your team and just go beserk, then obviously your best offensive player on the team will have high scores. This is because they are not thinking about "do my teammates think I'm a ballhog/selfish." They are just in scoring mode. But, let me emphasize the fact that it doesn't take anything away from the Kobe scoring 81.

I mean I'm a Detroit native and I remember Jerry Stackhouse consistently putting up huge numbers, like 30's and 40's. Not because he wanted to, but because he HAD to because he was on such a shitty Pistons team. Who the hell is Jerry Stackhouse anyways? (rhetorical question) But, that does not put him in the same caliber as Kobe, even if both are forced to put up numbers. I mean when Jordan scored 69 I believe he was a on a comparable team as Kobe when he score 81. Kobe's definitely a better perimeter player and that's why he got to 81, Jordan's a better inside scorer. I hate to say this but because of that Jordan would not have been able to do 81 in Kobe's exact scenario. The majority of players that are on the single-game scoring record list were on mediocre teams, aside from Elgin Baylor's Lakers and David Robinson's Spurs(and that's stretching it with the Spurs). My whole thing is if you individually put all the great post players in the same era and circumstance as Wilt, I think the outcome of individuals scoring 100 would be a lot higher than if you put all the great perimeter guards and put them in Kobe's/Jordan's era and circumstance of scoring 81/69. I actually think I safely say I there would be so few I could count them on one hand. And that just proves Kobe's greatness as the best offensive guard of all time.


Jordan

Hands down MJ is the better leader of the 2. He is better defensively. He is physically and mentally stronger. What I mean by mentally this is not DRIVE/HUNGER, but how Jordan could sway the game in his favor by play mind games with his opponents. Slightly better court vision, and slightly better passer. Most of you Jordan fanatics with disagree with me saying slightly but a huge variable is that MJ and Kobe were in completely different situations with their teams throughout their careers. I mean Jordan had a better supporting cast throughout his career so obviously his assist stats are going to be better than Kobe's. We can't really prove that with Kobe, maybe with his team he just won a championship with but that was one season. And don't even try and say his Kobe & Shaq Era or the time they had the Mailman and Payton. Because the Kobe & Shaq Era was literally just KOBE & SHAQ and as far as the Mailman and Payton, hate to say it they were just old. Just watch that series Finals with the Pistons. Maybe that's biased because I said that I was confident that Jordan could not have done 81, but I truly believe that when he did 69 he was in comparable scenario as Kobe. Plus I am 100% sure that Kobe is a better Perimeter player than MJ, Phil Jackson said the same.

Aside from all the hype of Jordan Brand and all of his other endorsements. And his legacy of evolving and innovating the game, Jordan is very comparable to Kobe. Obviously Jordan paved the way for Kobe. And by video clips and photos, it's clear to see that Kobe is a student of the game, because obviously he mimics and mirrors Jordans moves. But, that's what Dr. J did for Jordan, maybe not as drastic as what Jordan did for Kobe. But, Jordan did say so himself that Dr. J inspired him, and not only on the free throw dunk. Basically Kobe took the fundamentals and mechanics of how Jordan offensively played the game and fine tuned it. Without Jordan there would be no Kobe and that's the truth.



Final Verdict


Overall Kobe is better offensively than Jordan. But, as an overall player Jordan is the GOAT. Kobe plays the game, Jordan basically was the game. As corny as that sounds, Jordan would beat teams with his mind. He'd slowly but surely mentally break down his opponents. Let's just put it this way Kobe wins by his sheer own will, Jordan wins by his leadership. When Jordan passed the ball to the open Kerr in Game 6 of the 97 Finals, Jordan could have made his own shot because he was having a great game (39 points). But, instead he passed it to his open teammate because he had faith in him. Now, Kobe passed the ball to Artest in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals in a similar situation. But, for sure Kobe was struggling he ended the game with 23 points. And there was no way he was going to make his own shot with Boston's defense covering him. He passed the ball because Artest was open and he was struggling. If Kobe was not struggling and he was feeling it there is NO WAY he would of dished the ball out to an inconsistent perimeter shooter like Artest. Basketball is a team sport, and MJ knew how to implement and lead his teammates. Therefore in conclusion, JORDAN is the better player. As far as legacies go aside from Jordan innovating and evolving the game and paving the way..... Kobe and Jordan both have a great stories to their legacies which are very admirable. On the side note Lebron has basically ended his legacy and him going to Miami is not admirable and shows he doesn't have a heart of a true champion like Kobe and Mike. coolcoolcoolcool BORED!


This is exactly what I'm talking about, spot on.

Wordlife you are reaching by comparing Tmac to Kobe, give me a fuckin' break man. Tmac had a nice peak but his longevity is worthless. At least Iverson has a case.
July 15, 2010 @ 10:24 PM
sargasm

Post: 739

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: LA area

Okay.... I'm going to put this whole debate to rest:

First and Foremost I am a fan of both Kobe and MJ. So I am not being biased at all by what I am about to say. Anyways.....

KOBE

Whoever says that Kobe is not the most DOMINANT offensive 2 guard in the history of the game does not know what they are talking about. And by Kobe being the most dominant offensively does not automatically make him better than MJ! But, offensively skill-wise he is the better than MJ. I mean it really doesn't matter that the Toronto Raptors team sucked or even that the Lakers team back then sucked. The man scored 81 fing points in this era. Of course there's that whole debate on whether it is easier or harder to put up high scoring numbers after the 3 point era. Honestly I believe it is harder now even with having the 3 ball in this era's favor, especially because of all the rule changes in the paint. Not to taint Wilt Chamberlain's legacy, but I really think Bill Russell, Kareem, and a consistent free throw shooting Shaq could have done 100 in the same circumstance. I am only saying this because David Robinson did 71 in this era and I consider all 3 of those players to be more dominant than him. I mean it all goes back to the "he has shitty team" theory. When put in a situation where you have the freedom to carry your team and just go beserk, then obviously your best offensive player on the team will have high scores. This is because they are not thinking about "do my teammates think I'm a ballhog/selfish." They are just in scoring mode. But, let me emphasize the fact that it doesn't take anything away from the Kobe scoring 81.

I mean I'm a Detroit native and I remember Jerry Stackhouse consistently putting up huge numbers, like 30's and 40's. Not because he wanted to, but because he HAD to because he was on such a shitty Pistons team. Who the hell is Jerry Stackhouse anyways? (rhetorical question) But, that does not put him in the same caliber as Kobe, even if both are forced to put up numbers. I mean when Jordan scored 69 I believe he was a on a comparable team as Kobe when he score 81. Kobe's definitely a better perimeter player and that's why he got to 81, Jordan's a better inside scorer. I hate to say this but because of that Jordan would not have been able to do 81 in Kobe's exact scenario. The majority of players that are on the single-game scoring record list were on mediocre teams, aside from Elgin Baylor's Lakers and David Robinson's Spurs(and that's stretching it with the Spurs). My whole thing is if you individually put all the great post players in the same era and circumstance as Wilt, I think the outcome of individuals scoring 100 would be a lot higher than if you put all the great perimeter guards and put them in Kobe's/Jordan's era and circumstance of scoring 81/69. I actually think I safely say I there would be so few I could count them on one hand. And that just proves Kobe's greatness as the best offensive guard of all time.


Jordan

Hands down MJ is the better leader of the 2. He is better defensively. He is physically and mentally stronger. What I mean by mentally this is not DRIVE/HUNGER, but how Jordan could sway the game in his favor by play mind games with his opponents. Slightly better court vision, and slightly better passer. Most of you Jordan fanatics with disagree with me saying slightly but a huge variable is that MJ and Kobe were in completely different situations with their teams throughout their careers. I mean Jordan had a better supporting cast throughout his career so obviously his assist stats are going to be better than Kobe's. We can't really prove that with Kobe, maybe with his team he just won a championship with but that was one season. And don't even try and say his Kobe & Shaq Era or the time they had the Mailman and Payton. Because the Kobe & Shaq Era was literally just KOBE & SHAQ and as far as the Mailman and Payton, hate to say it they were just old. Just watch that series Finals with the Pistons. Maybe that's biased because I said that I was confident that Jordan could not have done 81, but I truly believe that when he did 69 he was in comparable scenario as Kobe. Plus I am 100% sure that Kobe is a better Perimeter player than MJ, Phil Jackson said the same.

Aside from all the hype of Jordan Brand and all of his other endorsements. And his legacy of evolving and innovating the game, Jordan is very comparable to Kobe. Obviously Jordan paved the way for Kobe. And by video clips and photos, it's clear to see that Kobe is a student of the game, because obviously he mimics and mirrors Jordans moves. But, that's what Dr. J did for Jordan, maybe not as drastic as what Jordan did for Kobe. But, Jordan did say so himself that Dr. J inspired him, and not only on the free throw dunk. Basically Kobe took the fundamentals and mechanics of how Jordan offensively played the game and fine tuned it. Without Jordan there would be no Kobe and that's the truth.



Final Verdict


Overall Kobe is better offensively than Jordan. But, as an overall player Jordan is the GOAT. Kobe plays the game, Jordan basically was the game. As corny as that sounds, Jordan would beat teams with his mind. He'd slowly but surely mentally break down his opponents. Let's just put it this way Kobe wins by his sheer own will, Jordan wins by his leadership. When Jordan passed the ball to the open Kerr in Game 6 of the 97 Finals, Jordan could have made his own shot because he was having a great game (39 points). But, instead he passed it to his open teammate because he had faith in him. Now, Kobe passed the ball to Artest in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals in a similar situation. But, for sure Kobe was struggling he ended the game with 23 points. And there was no way he was going to make his own shot with Boston's defense covering him. He passed the ball because Artest was open and he was struggling. If Kobe was not struggling and he was feeling it there is NO WAY he would of dished the ball out to an inconsistent perimeter shooter like Artest. Basketball is a team sport, and MJ knew how to implement and lead his teammates. Therefore in conclusion, JORDAN is the better player. As far as legacies go aside from Jordan innovating and evolving the game and paving the way..... Kobe and Jordan both have a great stories to their legacies which are very admirable. On the side note Lebron has basically ended his legacy and him going to Miami is not admirable and shows he doesn't have a heart of a true champion like Kobe and Mike. coolcoolcoolcool BORED!


This is exactly what I'm talking about, spot on.

Wordlife you are reaching by comparing Tmac to Kobe, give me a fuckin' break man. Tmac had a nice peak but his longevity is worthless. At least Iverson has a case in regard to guards.
July 15, 2010 @ 10:36 PM
Pinhead Larry

Post: 1822

Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: NC

This is exactly what I'm talking about, spot on.

Wordlife you are reaching by comparing Tmac to Kobe, give me a fuckin' break man. Tmac had a nice peak but his longevity is worthless. At least Iverson has a case in regard to guards.


i wasn't the one who brought up T-mac, it was that other dude who quoted my post

I just said something in response since he wanted to bring up T-mac
July 15, 2010 @ 10:56 PM
sargasm

Post: 739

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: LA area

i wasn't the one who brought up T-mac, it was that other dude who quoted my post

I just said something in response since he wanted to bring up T-mac

My bad, thought I saw you talking about Tmac and his other teammates. I see you put Wilt, MJ, and West for arguing against Kobe for best offensive player ever and those are reasonable. Wilt was so much larger than everyone else on the court, sure he had skill but he dominated the boards as well, it's a little unfair imo. West has a pretty strong case, obviously Money does too. Whenever I think of Kobe's offensive ability, it isn't entirely ppg or percentages, but I'd say he's shown that he can score in more ways anywhere on the court regardless of the situation, and has the most varied arsenal. Not to mention he's done this for many years and has a couple of scoring titles to show.
July 15, 2010 @ 11:12 PM
qazwsx1

Post: 491

Join Date: Jan 2010

kobe is better cus who won more ring when they was both in the league at the same time? kobe did!!

3>2

and all you michael jordan dick rider probably didnt even watch jordan play from 1985-1998 so get off his stats nuts
July 15, 2010 @ 11:43 PM
Juki

Post: 2146

Join Date: Aug 2008

Okay.... I'm going to put this whole debate to rest:

First and Foremost I am a fan of both Kobe and MJ. So I am not being biased at all by what I am about to say. Anyways.....

KOBE

Whoever says that Kobe is not the most DOMINANT offensive 2 guard in the history of the game does not know what they are talking about. And by Kobe being the most dominant offensively does not automatically make him better than MJ! But, offensively skill-wise he is the better than MJ. I mean it really doesn't matter that the Toronto Raptors team sucked or even that the Lakers team back then sucked. The man scored 81 fing points in this era. Of course there's that whole debate on whether it is easier or harder to put up high scoring numbers after the 3 point era. Honestly I believe it is harder now even with having the 3 ball in this era's favor, especially because of all the rule changes in the paint. Not to taint Wilt Chamberlain's legacy, but I really think Bill Russell, Kareem, and a consistent free throw shooting Shaq could have done 100 in the same circumstance. I am only saying this because David Robinson did 71 in this era and I consider all 3 of those players to be more dominant than him. I mean it all goes back to the "he has shitty team" theory. When put in a situation where you have the freedom to carry your team and just go beserk, then obviously your best offensive player on the team will have high scores. This is because they are not thinking about "do my teammates think I'm a ballhog/selfish." They are just in scoring mode. But, let me emphasize the fact that it doesn't take anything away from the Kobe scoring 81.

I mean I'm a Detroit native and I remember Jerry Stackhouse consistently putting up huge numbers, like 30's and 40's. Not because he wanted to, but because he HAD to because he was on such a shitty Pistons team. Who the hell is Jerry Stackhouse anyways? (rhetorical question) But, that does not put him in the same caliber as Kobe, even if both are forced to put up numbers. I mean when Jordan scored 69 I believe he was a on a comparable team as Kobe when he score 81. Kobe's definitely a better perimeter player and that's why he got to 81, Jordan's a better inside scorer. I hate to say this but because of that Jordan would not have been able to do 81 in Kobe's exact scenario. The majority of players that are on the single-game scoring record list were on mediocre teams, aside from Elgin Baylor's Lakers and David Robinson's Spurs(and that's stretching it with the Spurs). My whole thing is if you individually put all the great post players in the same era and circumstance as Wilt, I think the outcome of individuals scoring 100 would be a lot higher than if you put all the great perimeter guards and put them in Kobe's/Jordan's era and circumstance of scoring 81/69. I actually think I safely say I there would be so few I could count them on one hand. And that just proves Kobe's greatness as the best offensive guard of all time.


Jordan

Hands down MJ is the better leader of the 2. He is better defensively. He is physically and mentally stronger. What I mean by mentally this is not DRIVE/HUNGER, but how Jordan could sway the game in his favor by play mind games with his opponents. Slightly better court vision, and slightly better passer. Most of you Jordan fanatics with disagree with me saying slightly but a huge variable is that MJ and Kobe were in completely different situations with their teams throughout their careers. I mean Jordan had a better supporting cast throughout his career so obviously his assist stats are going to be better than Kobe's. We can't really prove that with Kobe, maybe with his team he just won a championship with but that was one season. And don't even try and say his Kobe & Shaq Era or the time they had the Mailman and Payton. Because the Kobe & Shaq Era was literally just KOBE & SHAQ and as far as the Mailman and Payton, hate to say it they were just old. Just watch that series Finals with the Pistons. Maybe that's biased because I said that I was confident that Jordan could not have done 81, but I truly believe that when he did 69 he was in comparable scenario as Kobe. Plus I am 100% sure that Kobe is a better Perimeter player than MJ, Phil Jackson said the same.

Aside from all the hype of Jordan Brand and all of his other endorsements. And his legacy of evolving and innovating the game, Jordan is very comparable to Kobe. Obviously Jordan paved the way for Kobe. And by video clips and photos, it's clear to see that Kobe is a student of the game, because obviously he mimics and mirrors Jordans moves. But, that's what Dr. J did for Jordan, maybe not as drastic as what Jordan did for Kobe. But, Jordan did say so himself that Dr. J inspired him, and not only on the free throw dunk. Basically Kobe took the fundamentals and mechanics of how Jordan offensively played the game and fine tuned it. Without Jordan there would be no Kobe and that's the truth.



Final Verdict

Overall Kobe is better offensively than Jordan. But, as an overall player Jordan is the GOAT. Kobe plays the game, Jordan basically was the game. As corny as that sounds, Jordan would beat teams with his mind. He'd slowly but surely mentally break down his opponents. Let's just put it this way Kobe wins by his sheer own will, Jordan wins by his leadership. When Jordan passed the ball to the open Kerr in Game 6 of the 97 Finals, Jordan could have made his own shot because he was having a great game (39 points). But, instead he passed it to his open teammate because he had faith in him. Now, Kobe passed the ball to Artest in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals in a similar situation. But, for sure Kobe was struggling he ended the game with 23 points. And there was no way he was going to make his own shot with Boston's defense covering him. He passed the ball because Artest was open and he was struggling. If Kobe was not struggling and he was feeling it there is NO WAY he would of dished the ball out to an inconsistent perimeter shooter like Artest. Basketball is a team sport, and MJ knew how to implement and lead his teammates. Therefore in conclusion, JORDAN is the better player. As far as legacies go aside from Jordan innovating and evolving the game and paving the way..... Kobe and Jordan both have a great stories to their legacies which are very admirable. On the side note Lebron has basically ended his legacy and him going to Miami is not admirable and shows he doesn't have a heart of a true champion like Kobe and Mike. coolcoolcoolcool BORED!


I respect your post but your wrong in so many parts. The statements in BOLD, I wouldn't give Kobe that much. For one:

Kobe scored 81 points against a bad team who let him. Jordan never got anything given to him especially in his prime and Im sure he couldve got over 81 in a similar senario. JORDAN IS, WAS, AND WILL ALWAYS BE THE MOST DOMINANT 2 GUARD THE NBA WILL EVER SEE. Are you joking?

%99 of Kobes offense came from Jordan and then there are things Jordan did that Kobe never did or never will do cause hes past his prime. I could debate you more but honestly, Whys this thread still going on after that video was posted. Take a look at it. Theres no comparison. Your right though, Mentally Jordan is light years ahead of Kobe. Alot of guards from Jordans era were higher mentally like Isaiah or even Iverson not that long ago. but remember Kobes biggest failure is that he doesn't have his own identity/game cause no matter how good he is:



and no Basketball fan in their right mind will put Kobe over Jordan. Its over

Doubleclutchhoops.com

July 16, 2010 @ 12:17 AM
mixtape_03

Post: 2658

Join Date: May 2008

I didn't say kobe wasn't in the conversation you nitwit, but I said there were 3 people who have an argument against him



by saying "to call Kobe the best offensive player ever is just foolish and ill-advised" is essentially saying putting him in the conversation is just idiotic. . right?

you idiotic "nitwit" homer
July 16, 2010 @ 12:28 AM
Justiu

Post: 706

Join Date: Feb 2010

Location: Los Angeles


and all you michael jordan dick rider probably didnt even watch jordan play from 1985-1998 so get off his stats nuts


@ Juki & Wordlife .....

hb fell off / justinlifestyle.tumblr.com

July 16, 2010 @ 12:33 AM
no0 v.2.0

Post: 2122

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: $crewston

to not even think abt kobe being the best offensive threat this league has ever seen is just blatantly hating him for whatever reason.


this guy wants to say hi.

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