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March 28, 2010 @ 10:11 AM
young idiot

Post: 6150

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: London

I read this quote from a Jill Scott interview about how her "spirit wince[d]" when she heard that a black male friend of hers had married a white lady.

Can someone help me understand this point of view? This stigma -- does it only apply to black men and white women, or is it different with black women and white men? And what about other races? Why does stuff like this continue to exist?

I should point out here that I'm not really taking a stance. COMPLETELY neutral, like Jacob on Lost, or Snoop Dogg in the mid to late 90s.
March 28, 2010 @ 10:29 AM
JesusHadDreads

Post: 1147

Join Date: Jan 2010

Location: 904 Florida

Mixed Girls > Spanish Girls > White Girls > Black Girls > Other

Im Black.
March 28, 2010 @ 10:47 AM
EdotMill

Post: 81

Join Date: Jul 2009

I saw this interview too man, and being a black male I'm very familiar with this issue. Especially since my mom has a subscription to like 4 black womens magazines which address the issue frequently.


To be clear, Jill Scott, also said in the interview that she has absolutely no problem with inter-racial dating whatsoever, and that she was for Love period. regardless of race.

What she was describing as a "wince" is an almost uncontrollable first reaction of black women when they first find that a black man is dating a nonblack woman (just to be real, the response is overwhelmingly to black men dating white women specifically).

The "wince" reaction is rooted in several things. Primarily Westernized standards of beauty which do not support distinctly black features as being beautiful, and in many case support the exact opposite physical features ( fair skin, straight hair). Black women are constantly subjected to the "She looks good for a black girl..." description. The second key factor in the "wince" is a lack of available black men in relation to black women. There is a disproportionate number of black men in prisons, and there are a disproportionate amount of black men confined to the ghetto and are at risk of possessing the negative attributes the ghetto can produce in men.

This results in what black women refer to as a lack of available "Good Black Men". "good" usually meaning intelligent, accountable, successful black men.

So the reactionary wince comes from two things. The fact that black men dating white women reinforces in their minds that black women cannot be as beautiful as white women. Secondly, that a black man dating a white women, means another "good black man" lost or unavailable to them.

Black women on the whole, are not against interracial dating.. The reality of the situation is that they FEAR that black men are dating white women BECAUSE they are white.

and that comment right there from that Black man above me is EXACTLY why black women wince when they see black men dating white women. (surprising from someones whose name is "jesushaddreads" lol)
March 28, 2010 @ 10:50 AM
young idiot

Post: 6150

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: London

That is yet another depressing piece of information I'm learning for the first time. Why would they deliberately seek black men, though?
March 28, 2010 @ 11:08 AM
EdotMill

Post: 81

Join Date: Jul 2009

That is a very good question Zilla.

You would hope that we as a society are trying to get to a post-racial era, where race is not a factor in anything that we do.

So its a bit troublesome, when black women seem to deliberately seek "good black men" instead of just "good men".

However, the fact of the matter is this (imo anyways), given the history of race relations in the U.S., and its lasting effects, the "black experience" in this country for the most part is still very different from the "white experience". Even black kids raised in the suburbs (such as myself) tend to have distinctly black cultural ties and life experiences. They are simply a lot of cultural elements and life experiences that black people share because American society has pigeonholed them together, that they do not share with white people. Its not that black women do not ever find white men attractive, but that they think by dating a "brother" they will be dating a person who can relate to them on the issues that are overwhelmingly specific to black people, and one that can identify with their "blackness", which is a still a major source of identity for a lot of black women, and black people in general. It should be stated that the fact that many black people embrace a black identity separate from mainstream America does not result from black peoples desire to be different, but is a reaction to the fact that they were TOLD they were different and were TREATED differently for centuries in this country for the SOLE reason that they were black.
March 28, 2010 @ 11:29 AM
itsyababyboyzilla

Post: 1462

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: London

What about white boys dating black women? *I be one of these* smile
March 28, 2010 @ 11:46 AM
EdotMill

Post: 81

Join Date: Jul 2009

from my personal experience, the majority of stigma that comes from a white man dating a black woman comes from other white men. I have some ideas on why that is, but maybe some white men could provide more personable insight.

I am generalizing of course, but black women tend to view it as an oddity, but something that may be a necessity due to the shortage of available black men. Black men also tend to view it as an oddity, maybe even humorous, but rarely react to it with anger. A black woman dating a white man may be looked at with curiosity by other blacks , but it is not met with nearly as much controversy and hostility as a black man dating a white woman. I think this is primarily because black women view white women as a real threat to the availability of black men, while black men do not view white men as a real threat to the availability of black women.

But maybe some white men or women could shed some light with their perspectives on the issue.
March 28, 2010 @ 11:52 AM
itsyababyboyzilla

Post: 1462

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: London

Well from what ive notcied, there seems to be much more stigma around a white man dating a black women, its almsot seen as obvious that black men go for white women cause its almost a norm.

But in my case it seems that there is much more people anti white men dating black women than the opposite. Could be because of sensitivity around the subject which we all know what I mean by that, but also because its like for black men, how did he do that, I get asked that question a lot, "How did you get a black girl?" etc and im just like... by being myself, I often get looks from boys everywhere I go, not neccesarily people my age either, but older people and young people. Quite disturbing really that we live in a time where people cant do what they want.
March 28, 2010 @ 11:55 AM
young idiot

Post: 6150

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: London

That is a very good question Zilla.

You would hope that we as a society are trying to get to a post-racial era, where race is not a factor in anything that we do.

So its a bit troublesome, when black women seem to deliberately seek "good black men" instead of just "good men".

However, the fact of the matter is this (imo anyways), given the history of race relations in the U.S., and its lasting effects, the "black experience" in this country for the most part is still very different from the "white experience". Even black kids raised in the suburbs (such as myself) tend to have distinctly black cultural ties and life experiences. They are simply a lot of cultural elements and life experiences that black people share because American society has pigeonholed them together, that they do not share with white people. Its not that black women do not ever find white men attractive, but that they think by dating a "brother" they will be dating a person who can relate to them on the issues that are overwhelmingly specific to black people, and one that can identify with their "blackness", which is a still a major source of identity for a lot of black women, and black people in general. It should be stated that the fact that many black people embrace a black identity separate from mainstream America does not result from black peoples desire to be different, but is a reaction to the fact that they were TOLD they were different and were TREATED differently for centuries in this country for the SOLE reason that they were black.


This is nuts. I mean, it sounds true enough, but still, I can't fathom how big the states are that there's such diversity from one area to the next. There are parts of London I don't know about, so, wow.

You would think though, that the opposites attract rule would work here. I know that, personally, it's kinda jarring meeting someone similar to myself. So this apparent black woman's search for a black man -- or at least someone with the same reference points -- must be kinda hindered when someone comes along and it's purely physical. So maybe it's just for long-term relationships that this is an issue, if you can call it an issue.
March 28, 2010 @ 11:56 AM
Mr. T

Post: 552

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: 510 x 713

What about white boys dating black women? *I be one of these* smile


Edot, summed it up pretty damn well. However, race relations are different in America than in the UK. I'd actually like to see you give a bit more insight given that you are, or have dated black women before. Are people shocked when you introduce your black girlfriend? Or do they even care and just see the person as opposed to the skin color?

EDIT: nevermind, you just did.
March 28, 2010 @ 11:58 AM
drifter

Post: 1271

Join Date: Aug 2006

Lets be real for a second, black people get the short end of the stick so to speak in this case.

You would think since blacks have been apart of the american society for so long, they would be the first group that gets accepted for shit like this.

Wrong, if anything seeing a white girl with a hispanic or asian etc. is not even looked at over a black male.

Fact is, I'm picky as fuck, especially when it comes to black girls, sad to say they gotta act white and be light skinned for me to be interested. not that i wont talk to them or shit like that, just its one of those things, same way i wont talk to straight up hood puerto rican girls unless im only wanting to smash.

I think things have changed for the better, but fact is there is a stigma and im not going to lie and say i dont buy into it, it goes both ways though, a lot of blacks will not fuck with certain races etc.

its life and if your able to be in a relationship, be happy...there are 21 year old dudes out there that still havent kissed a girl, so complaining over shit like this is miniscule...i have a slight tan, so if a girl automatically assumes im hispanic and that makes them not want me, oh well, they missed out cus the rest of my body is white as hell. keep that farmers tan on lock.
March 28, 2010 @ 12:02 PM
itsyababyboyzilla

Post: 1462

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: London

All my family seem cool with me having a black GF, its not a problem.

But I notice a bit of stigma around her family, just small but, only some of them. Its all good though.

Its more about how over here white women seem to go for black guys and im like literally the only exception in my whole college, that I know of who is white and dating someone black. I get looks all the time.
March 28, 2010 @ 12:08 PM
Mr. T

Post: 552

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: 510 x 713

All my family seem cool with me having a black GF, its not a problem.

But I notice a bit of stigma around her family, just small but, only some of them. Its all good though.

Its more about how over here white women seem to go for black guys and im like literally the only exception in my whole college, that I know of who is white and dating someone black. I get looks all the time.


Do people in London have a history of dating out of their race? Or is it like a recent upsurge of interracial couples?
March 28, 2010 @ 12:16 PM
Thim Slugga

Post: 430

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: DETROIT

I'm white with a black gf and I've heard my fair share of narrow minded comments, I don't pay any attention and keep it moving as life is too busy to dwell on crap like that.
March 28, 2010 @ 12:19 PM
young idiot

Post: 6150

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: London

Do people in London have a history of dating out of their race? Or is it like a recent upsurge of interracial couples?


Well it's a varied kinda place -- you'll find a lot of different backgrounds in London. But what Milo said about the "how did you get a black girl" thing is definitely true. Black girls are seen as more religious, and harder to "get", if you know what I mean. And white girls are seen as easier in a lot of circles.
March 28, 2010 @ 12:27 PM
kbos

Post: 2685

Join Date: May 2008

Location: boston

Obviously this is a generalization but in my experience white men and black men tend to go for different types of white women. hence the common stereotype that black men stay hitting up the ugly white girls.
March 28, 2010 @ 12:31 PM
EdotMill

Post: 81

Join Date: Jul 2009

I know nothing about current race relations in the UK, or the history of race relations to comment on the situation in the UK. I would be interested in hearing more about it from my UK brothers.


However, in the U.S., race is still a very strong social force. The nature of it has changed tho. The force is much more subtle (i.e. white people are no longer hanging black people from trees/ nor are there separate facilities marked "colored only" or white only"). However, they are still very much present in the form of stereotypes and even subconscious and covert forms of prejudice.

It is evident in drifter's remark that black girls got to "act white" for him to be interested in them.

The whole notion that there is such a thing as black people "acting white" is ridiculous. However, the fact remains that pretty much everybody who lives in the U.S. knew exactly what Drifter meant when he said that. That is how deeply ingrained stereotypes are in America, that there is such a thing as "acting white" or "acting black"

For my U.K. brothers, I wonder are there such notions as "acting black" and "acting white" in the U.K., and if so, what do they imply?
March 28, 2010 @ 12:40 PM
kbos

Post: 2685

Join Date: May 2008

Location: boston

In the US the whether a black person is acting black or acting white in the eyes of the judger tends to depend on the use of ebonics and fitting stereotypes
March 28, 2010 @ 12:42 PM
damnwitless2

suspended

Post: 7236

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Bucktown, USA

idk, I love white girls just because I got a thing for those pink nipples &)&)&)

All I do is smoke weed, blow lines, and listen to MF DOOM. And rap. http://www.facebook.com/SpacemanNYC

March 28, 2010 @ 02:20 PM
Kzoh

Post: 2014

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: 337

The white female black male relationships and vise versa don't bother me,personaly I want to marry a woman of color,be she black,latino,asian,etc.I believe all minorities understand some type of struggle and can identify with each other.
March 28, 2010 @ 02:27 PM
jawesome

Post: 3711

Join Date: Sep 2008

My girl is mixed Indian/white. The fact she's got some white in her means I can't date her or marry her if I wanted. Unless I wanted the Indian community talkin' mad shit. Funny thing is she's more into our culture than I am but race means everything for a lot of Asian societies.

Instagram: prxsh

March 28, 2010 @ 02:35 PM
young idiot

Post: 6150

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: London

I know nothing about current race relations in the UK, or the history of race relations to comment on the situation in the UK. I would be interested in hearing more about it from my UK brothers.


However, in the U.S., race is still a very strong social force. The nature of it has changed tho. The force is much more subtle (i.e. white people are no longer hanging black people from trees/ nor are there separate facilities marked "colored only" or white only"). However, they are still very much present in the form of stereotypes and even subconscious and covert forms of prejudice.

It is evident in drifter's remark that black girls got to "act white" for him to be interested in them.

The whole notion that there is such a thing as black people "acting white" is ridiculous. However, the fact remains that pretty much everybody who lives in the U.S. knew exactly what Drifter meant when he said that. That is how deeply ingrained stereotypes are in America, that there is such a thing as "acting white" or "acting black"

For my U.K. brothers, I wonder are there such notions as "acting black" and "acting white" in the U.K., and if so, what do they imply?


white people who "act black" are often referred to as chavs, which is kind of an acceptable derogatory term.
March 28, 2010 @ 02:37 PM
ᴊᴜᴀɴ

Post: 6244

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: Lurking

I'm black and I've dated wht/mex/blk/azn. I mean yeah growing up my moms and most of the females in my family expected me to be with a black girl. It really doesn't matter to me and they like who i'm with now even though she's white. I've always been an open minded dude. It seems like theres nothing BUT mixed couples in SD mostly blk/azn or blk/mex. When i moved to Milwaukee its the same but only more white guys dating black chicks and white chicks dating black dudes. Guess it depends on where you're from to some extent.
March 28, 2010 @ 03:44 PM
ichigo81

Post: 2817

Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: between the bay and...

is it wrong for me to say i would never fuck with a white bitchconfused, i am a black man with a good goverment job and i would love to date a sista but it seems they are only attracted to wanna be rappers and shit, i guess i fit under the "acting" white flag, because i graduated from college, like all types of music(not just listening to gucci mane) and can speak correct english, i don't get black women, their are plenty of good black men but they just don't want them, so i just fucks with asian chicks and latin chicks but i still from time to time try to holla at sistas but i just don't know man, i feel her arguement but sometimes black women stay playing the victim and the shit gets old, if u can't find a good black man like u claim, then start dating latin,white,asian,middle eastern, shit just date and shut the fuck up, life is too short, real love is real love>sad
March 28, 2010 @ 04:01 PM
UVZ

Post: 200

Join Date: Jan 2009

white people who "act black" are often referred to as chavs, which is kind of an acceptable derogatory term.

as much as i hate interrupting you being the voice of the uk, thats just a bad explanation
March 28, 2010 @ 04:09 PM
damnwitless2

suspended

Post: 7236

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Bucktown, USA

is it wrong for me to say i would never fuck with a white bitchconfused, i am a black man with a good goverment job and i would love to date a sista but it seems they are only attracted to wanna be rappers and shit, i guess i fit under the "acting" white flag, because i graduated from college, like all types of music(not just listening to gucci mane) and can speak correct english, i don't get black women, their are plenty of good black men but they just don't want them, so i just fucks with asian chicks and latin chicks but i still from time to time try to holla at sistas but i just don't know man, i feel her arguement but sometimes black women stay playing the victim and the shit gets old, if u can't find a good black man like u claim, then start dating latin,white,asian,middle eastern, shit just date and shut the fuck up, life is too short, real love is real love>sad


word is bond. I definitely wouldn't say this is true across the board but a lot of times during adolescence black bitches fuck with a lot of goon type bubblehead niiggas (who tend to grow up to not be shit) and either play or completely ignore the dudes who grow up to be the "good black men", so by the time they grown and want a niigga wit money and prospects he's already like "fuck these black bitches, Ima get me a fly ass white bitch who knows how to shut the fuck up and suck a mean dick!"

All I do is smoke weed, blow lines, and listen to MF DOOM. And rap. http://www.facebook.com/SpacemanNYC

March 28, 2010 @ 04:53 PM
young idiot

Post: 6150

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: London

as much as i hate interrupting you being the voice of the uk, thats just a bad explanation


I dunno, it could vary from place to place. You've never heard of a word being more than just a cul-de-sac?
March 28, 2010 @ 05:28 PM
CⒶM

Post: 875

Join Date: Aug 2009

Location: Area

im black
dont care bout ethnicity

Not with a bang but a whimper

March 28, 2010 @ 05:44 PM
sado

Post: 3318

Join Date: Jul 2009

word is bond. I definitely wouldn't say this is true across the board but a lot of times during adolescence black bitches fuck with a lot of goon type bubblehead niiggas (who tend to grow up to not be shit) and either play or completely ignore the dudes who grow up to be the "good black men", so by the time they grown and want a niigga wit money and prospects he's already like "fuck these black bitches, Ima get me a fly ass white bitch who knows how to shut the fuck up and suck a mean dick!"


realest shit i've ever read
March 28, 2010 @ 06:14 PM
DAT CAT

Post: 1090

Join Date: Apr 2007

Location: yo

damwitless speaks truth, i saw some shit like this on tyra. I'm in a mixed relationship, i'm afghan, and i will not tell my parents for years and years to come. fucking racist immigrants

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