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July 25, 2011 @ 08:24 PM
jaded

moderator

Post: 7848

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: ಠ______ಠ

Crossfit is good for losing weight and increasing overall conditioning, but you aren't going to gain a great deal of strength on it, because the nature of the workouts is not conducive to strength gain.

Also for the morning cardio i have seen people get really good results from it while they are trying to lose body fat%...


Key to this is consistency, but I agree, the results can be really good. Fasted cardio 5-6 mornings a week for 30-60 minutes at a brisk pace will work wonders. The 2.8 speed setting on my treadmill works best for me; it's a brisk walk but not too fast. Hardest thing about it for most people is committing to rolling out of bed and getting right on to the treadmill.

i'm the best mayne, i deed it

July 26, 2011 @ 01:43 AM
unknown force.

Post: 3969

Join Date: Nov 2007

Location: san diego

this thread is useless without pics.

fat bitches/out of shape ♥♥♥♥♥s shouldn't be given advice if they ain't got the proof in their own body
July 26, 2011 @ 05:58 PM
curtis50cent

Post: 1049

Join Date: Feb 2007

5/3/1 calculator

www.strstd.com/

coolcoolcool
July 26, 2011 @ 11:11 PM
Sam

Post: 345

Join Date: Jan 2008

this thread is useless without pics.

fat bitches/out of shape ♥♥♥♥♥s shouldn't be given advice if they ain't got the proof in their own body


haha true
July 27, 2011 @ 01:54 PM
Scotty

Post: 4714

Join Date: Feb 2009

Change of thought... Decided not to do Layne's Power/hypertrophy, its just to much and already know its not what im looking for right now.. But i did find another 12 week routine im going to try and thinks its going to be good.. Its Jim Stoppani's 12 week, 4 phase routine.. He breaks his 12 weeks into different splits which he feel these splits work at the perfect time they should be done... If u dont know who Jim Stoppani is, he has his doctorate in Exercise physiology and is the senior science editor for Muscle & Fitness(read it when i seen this routine).. Only thing im going to do is add in more cardio to keep lean...
July 27, 2011 @ 02:37 PM
adoboFosho

Post: 2985

Join Date: Apr 2007

Crossfit is good for losing weight and increasing overall conditioning, but you aren't going to gain a great deal of strength on it, because the nature of the workouts is not conducive to strength gain.



Key to this is consistency, but I agree, the results can be really good. Fasted cardio 5-6 mornings a week for 30-60 minutes at a brisk pace will work wonders. The 2.8 speed setting on my treadmill works best for me; it's a brisk walk but not too fast. Hardest thing about it for most people is committing to rolling out of bed and getting right on to the treadmill.


lol thats the entire debate between t-nation and crossfit

but people forget that pure strength gain is not overall conditioning which improves gains for the people that need it most: law people, firemen, military, fighters, etc

would you trust your life to someone who trains 2.8mi or 7-12mi regularly &)

http://www.ebay.com/usr/adobo_fosho... selling black/white flyknits... look like yeezy!!!

July 27, 2011 @ 03:34 PM
jaded

moderator

Post: 7848

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: ಠ______ಠ

lol thats the entire debate between t-nation and crossfit

but people forget that pure strength gain is not overall conditioning which improves gains for the people that need it most: law people, firemen, military, fighters, etc

would you trust your life to someone who trains 2.8mi or 7-12mi regularly &)


There are a few reasons that I personally don't like CrossFit, but I don't want this thread to turn into a Strength Plan vs CrossFit debate, so I will keep them to myself.

i'm the best mayne, i deed it

July 27, 2011 @ 03:36 PM
KevBd

Post: 862

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Guelph, Ontario

There are a few reasons that I personally don't like CrossFit, but I don't want this thread to turn into a Strength Plan vs CrossFit debate, so I will keep them to myself.


my thoughts exactly.

two of em x hs shit

July 27, 2011 @ 03:41 PM
jaded

moderator

Post: 7848

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: ಠ______ಠ

5/3/1 calculator

www.strstd.com/

coolcoolcool


That's awesome. I did 5/3/1 for 6 months and calculating was always a pain because I was too lazy to make the Excel spreadsheet he lays out in the book.

If anyone is looking to get stronger, I can vouch for 5/3/1. I did it for 6 months and have nothing bad to say about it. It is not a traditional linear progression program in that you aren't loading the bar each time you workout (i.e. Starting Strength, Bill Starr, etc.), so the progression is more on a month to month basis than a week to week basis, but in 6 months I only ever had to reset my overhead press, and I knew that would be the lift I got stuck on at some point from the start.

i'm the best mayne, i deed it

July 27, 2011 @ 04:25 PM
Scotty

Post: 4714

Join Date: Feb 2009

There are a few reasons that I personally don't like CrossFit, but I don't want this thread to turn into a Strength Plan vs CrossFit debate, so I will keep them to myself.


But isnt that what a forum is all about? Peoples opinions on certain topics and having a discussion about it.. Might turn into a debate but for me i always like to read other opinions on things.. May disagree or agree but i i still like to read em... In this case, wouldnt mind reading why u dont like crossfit since i havent yet tried, still like to see another opinion on it...
July 27, 2011 @ 04:54 PM
adoboFosho

Post: 2985

Join Date: Apr 2007

mark rippletoe aka starting strenf dude used to be affiliated with them and you know how strong he is

heres a wod
335-275-345-225-355(fail)-200lbs(fail)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0KZB1xOAkk

i never did front squats before and could never put up that in my life, gotta work on hand flexibility sad

another
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYay78n1dgE

this type of training is more overall with people like bj penn swearing by this, there was a day with squats paired with jump rope double unders suprised

a straight powerlifting routine wouldn't accommodate for cardio and vice versa

i used to think doing the workouts with their weights would be to easy but it alot of the times it kicked me in the rear

in my old bodybuilding workouts i worked myself to go down to about 30 sec rest doing 4-6 8-12 15-20 reps at 20-30 sets but this takes it a step ahead

http://www.ebay.com/usr/adobo_fosho... selling black/white flyknits... look like yeezy!!!

July 27, 2011 @ 05:24 PM
jaded

moderator

Post: 7848

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: ಠ______ಠ

mark rippletoe aka starting strenf dude used to be affiliated with them and you know how strong he is


He also quit CrossFit and is not shy about sharing his reasons why. Here is one of them:

The vast majority of programs don’t make use of the novice effect to its full potential. CrossFit is an example of a training method that neglects to make full use of the fact that strength will increase rapidly if you ask it to, and that a strength increase makes all other fitness parameters increase along with it in an untrained person, male or female. It works very well since it is most people’s first exposure to an exercise protocol that’s supposed to be hard, and the impression of most inexperienced people who have tried it is very positive. P90X works well for the same reason, as does HIT, Turbo-Jam, the first week of football practice, and all participation in the first phases of any reasonably challenging sport. A strenuous physical effort – no matter what it is – acts as a stimulus for adaptation, up until the point that the adaptation occurs and the program fails to further progressively load.
This failure may be inherent in the program, like HIT-type Nautilus or Hammer Strength training, which rapidly exhausts the potential of one or two sets of about 10 reps to failure on singlejoint/single “bodypart” or “muscle group” machines to continue to produce enough systemic stress to drive an adaptation. Or it may be a function of the inability of the programmers to utilize the tools properly, since CrossFit certainly embraces the concepts of training useful movements that affect the body systemically.

i'm the best mayne, i deed it

July 27, 2011 @ 05:36 PM
jaded

moderator

Post: 7848

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: ಠ______ಠ

But isnt that what a forum is all about? Peoples opinions on certain topics and having a discussion about it.. Might turn into a debate but for me i always like to read other opinions on things.. May disagree or agree but i i still like to read em... In this case, wouldnt mind reading why u dont like crossfit since i havent yet tried, still like to see another opinion on it...


Okay, well I'll keep it brief, as there are plenty of things you can read online about this debate. If you search for why Mark Rippetoe left, you will also find an article by John Sheaffer from Greyskull Barbell about why he left. Mark has been in the game forver; I think everyone knows about Starting Strength at this point. John is also a strength coach who has his own linear progression program which is becoming very popular.

First of all, I don't think that CrossFit is conducive to proper/safe form, considering that a novice lifter is asked to come in and deadlift or powerclean 25 reps in a workout. They also teach a few things that are questionable, like the kipping pull-up. If you read the description of the kipping pull-up, it states that when properly done, it minimizes upper body pulling. What exactly is the point of performing a pull-up if your goal is to minimize upper body pulling?

I don't think CrossFit is anything more than an aerobic workout. There is weight training involved, but the weight used is not enough to stress the muscles and result in adaptation (strength gain). For example, the power clean is used to build explosive strength. It is loaded heavy, and performed for 5 reps on a traditional strength plan. If you are asked to perform 25 reps on a power clean, then there is no way you have enough weight on the bar to stress the body to the point of adaptation. You are merely doing an aerobic workout.

I think if you want to get in there and burn some calories and get your conditioning up, it's probably a good program, but I (like many others) don't believe that it's doing anything for strength. I also think that CrossFit workouts are just thrown together to remain new and keep people interested. I don't think their routines are backed by any proof of their effectiveness. For example, adoboFosho just said "there was a day with squats paired with jump rope double unders." I'd like to see someone find a strength coach that recommends that workout.

The best plans, in my opinion, involve heavy resistance training with 2 or 3 intense cardio sessions a week (not exceeding 10 minutes). For example, in 5/3/1, Jim Wendler has you in the gym 4 days a week training a major compound lift each time, then 2 or 3 nights a week he suggests you go out and run hill sprints for 10 minutes, or do prowler pushes. If your diet is good, you are going to get stronger and better conditioned on a plan like this.

I think a common misconception is that a strength plan means you aren't doing any conditioning, and that's just not the case anymore. In a recent interview I saw with Mark Rippetoe, he was raving about prowler pushes, Wendler strongly suggests hill sprints and prowler pushes in his 5/3/1 book, and John Sheaffer says the same in his Greyskull Linear Progression book.

I'm not really impressed by YouTube videos that show 1 person excelling at a WOD, because it's impossible to know all their details. Maybe a WOD video shows a guy deadlift 400 pounds, but what if that guy came into the CrossFit gym being able to deadlift 400 pounds, and that's all he has deadlifted with for a year now? If I see a video on YouTube of someone deadlifting 400 pounds that says they've been on Starting Strength for 3 months, then I know that they have used linear progression to get to that point, meaning each workout leading up to that 400 he has been able to add weight to his deadlift. That means that each workout he is stressing his body, adapting, and coming back stronger. From what I've seen on CrossFit (and I could be wrong here), they tell you what weights to use, so you will reach a point where there is no longer any stress/adaptation.

i'm the best mayne, i deed it

July 27, 2011 @ 06:04 PM
Scotty

Post: 4714

Join Date: Feb 2009

^ Interesting, what i get out of reading on crossfit would more for people who just want to be healthy and not really worrie about size & strength... Almost seems more about conditioning more than anything.. I mean u will build some sort of strength cause if u are adding weight, u are getting stronger.. Reason i woud think people would just add into a routine, rather than make it a whole routine? I never tried it so i cant speak on it, just like read opinions cause i never tried.. Still might just to see get my own take on it..

Also Hill sprints and prowler pushes are highly recommended... I read top trainers saying this is the best cardio workouts that u can do.. And i can vouch for Hill sprints I do them and gets your cardio way up! They suck and they are tiring but they work extremely well..

Im just a person who feels if it works for you do it, if doesnt work for you dont do it... There is a tons and tons of routines out there.. They arent going to work for some people and will work for others.. Opinions will always go back and forth on em.. I just like to see what people have to ay especially if i havent tried it yet.. Reason i tried Laynes program but wasnt for me, to many workouts and it just wasnt a good feel when doing it.. So i moved on and try something else, once i feel its working good, ill stick with it for around 12 weeks then move on to something else to keep my muscles new to something else..
July 27, 2011 @ 06:44 PM
jaded

moderator

Post: 7848

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: ಠ______ಠ

Reason i tried Laynes program but wasnt for me, to many workouts and it just wasnt a good feel when doing it


I am of the opinion that intensity is better than volume. Get in, work hard, get out. One reason I got burned out on the 5/3/1 plan is because of all the 5x10 work. It was just too much after a while.

If your goal is to get strong and keep up your conditioning, I would find a good strength plan that has you lifting heavy, and couple that with 2 or 3 intense 10-minute conditioning workouts 2 or 3 times a week like hill sprints or prowler pushes. Anyone doing that is going to get stronger and still be able to climb a set of stairs without passing out smile

i'm the best mayne, i deed it

July 28, 2011 @ 01:15 AM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009

i'm gonna hop on 5/3/1 once i get physical therapy done on my shoulder. unfortunately right now it can't handle a lot of heavy compound exercises so i'm mostly using plate loaded hammer strength machines and some free weights.

Melo Gang All Day

July 28, 2011 @ 01:49 AM
jaded

moderator

Post: 7848

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: ಠ______ಠ

i'm gonna hop on 5/3/1 once i get physical therapy done on my shoulder. unfortunately right now it can't handle a lot of heavy compound exercises so i'm mostly using plate loaded hammer strength machines and some free weights.


Shoulder injuries suck. I hurt my right shoulder and was out of the gym for nearly a month sad

i'm the best mayne, i deed it

July 28, 2011 @ 01:53 AM
Scotty

Post: 4714

Join Date: Feb 2009

I am of the opinion that intensity is better than volume. Get in, work hard, get out. One reason I got burned out on the 5/3/1 plan is because of all the 5x10 work. It was just too much after a while.

If your goal is to get strong and keep up your conditioning, I would find a good strength plan that has you lifting heavy, and couple that with 2 or 3 intense 10-minute conditioning workouts 2 or 3 times a week like hill sprints or prowler pushes. Anyone doing that is going to get stronger and still be able to climb a set of stairs without passing out smile


Studies have shown that intensity is much better than longitivtiy.. Read an article that shows your adrenaline is good for 45 minutes and the first 29 minutes is the peak then slowly goes down.. Once hit 45 minutes, after that u are now just tiring yourself out.. Reason they say do short but intense workouts is much better then doing these long ass routines.. U dont need to workout one part of your body for an hour long... Reason i wasnt feeling the Layne routine, he has like 15 different exercises in one day.. I got tired 3/4 the way through, been then again i was doing heavy for all upper which i dont like either.. U need to split that up which i think this new routine im training is going to be good cause this dude has u doing 4 different phases of 4 different splits.. Then i add my cardio and ab circuits on my off days, to keep my self lean, well see how it works out..

Just let my collar bone heel up for alittle over week.. Didnt want to do any lifting at all, just incase i might screw it up.. Even just a week, i was like this sucks, i just feel lazy.. But in all, i guess it was good cause i let my whole body rest up and let all the repairs happen..
July 28, 2011 @ 05:35 PM
KevBd

Post: 862

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Guelph, Ontario

Studies have shown that intensity is much better than longitivtiy.. Read an article that shows your adrenaline is good for 45 minutes and the first 29 minutes is the peak then slowly goes down.. Once hit 45 minutes, after that u are now just tiring yourself out.. Reason they say do short but intense workouts is much better then doing these long ass routines.. U dont need to workout one part of your body for an hour long... Reason i wasnt feeling the Layne routine, he has like 15 different exercises in one day.. I got tired 3/4 the way through, been then again i was doing heavy for all upper which i dont like either.. U need to split that up which i think this new routine im training is going to be good cause this dude has u doing 4 different phases of 4 different splits.. Then i add my cardio and ab circuits on my off days, to keep my self lean, well see how it works out..

Just let my collar bone heel up for alittle over week.. Didnt want to do any lifting at all, just incase i might screw it up.. Even just a week, i was like this sucks, i just feel lazy.. But in all, i guess it was good cause i let my whole body rest up and let all the repairs happen..


i dunno when your last break from training was, but that week off will do way more good than harm. make it two weeks off if you haven't already started training again.

two of em x hs shit

July 28, 2011 @ 05:38 PM
jaded

moderator

Post: 7848

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: ಠ______ಠ

i dunno when your last break from training was, but that week off will do way more good than harm. make it two weeks off if you haven't already started training again.


1 is plenty. I took 3 off to rest my shoulder and I am sore as shit now sad I wouldn't take more than 1 week off every 3 months or so unless it's for an injury.

i'm the best mayne, i deed it

July 28, 2011 @ 05:45 PM
KevBd

Post: 862

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Guelph, Ontario

1 is plenty. I took 3 off to rest my shoulder and I am sore as shit now sad I wouldn't take more than 1 week off every 3 months or so unless it's for an injury.


1 is plenty?! 1's the minimum rest period! taking huge breaks off every 10-16 weeks is like taking two steps back but five forward. the nervous system adaptation that your body develops after a properly executed program is more than enough to warrant a +10 day break from training.

this is all depending on how you're training and what your goals are/what you're training for.

two of em x hs shit

July 28, 2011 @ 06:06 PM
Scotty

Post: 4714

Join Date: Feb 2009

i dunno when your last break from training was, but that week off will do way more good than harm. make it two weeks off if you haven't already started training again.


It was more like 9-10 days off which was a good break.. My collar bone felt great and i had alot of energy, so i lifted heavy on monday and felt perfect.. So im back at it and everything is normal, so that amount of time was good for me.. I always take a few days rest off after a long period of working out.. And suggest everyone should do it every once in awhile, to just let your body completely rest and repair itself..
July 28, 2011 @ 06:55 PM
jaded

moderator

Post: 7848

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: ಠ______ಠ

1 is plenty?! 1's the minimum rest period! taking huge breaks off every 10-16 weeks is like taking two steps back but five forward. the nervous system adaptation that your body develops after a properly executed program is more than enough to warrant a +10 day break from training.

this is all depending on how you're training and what your goals are/what you're training for.


I've never seen a break more than 1 week recommended anywhere. I just came off a 3 week break to rest my right shoulder and I'm sore as shit, so I can't imagine taking more than a week off again in the future.

i'm the best mayne, i deed it

July 28, 2011 @ 08:38 PM
KevBd

Post: 862

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Guelph, Ontario

I've never seen a break more than 1 week recommended anywhere. I just came off a 3 week break to rest my right shoulder and I'm sore as shit, so I can't imagine taking more than a week off again in the future.


you should check this book out: www.scottabel.com/store/product.php?productid=16152 (am i allowed to post that link? i'm new here)

dude's one of the best in the industry. he focuses primarily on "physique enhancement," but his principals should be applied to all training, no matter what the desired goal.

he's one of the only trainers i bother with anymore. his shit is just mind blowing sometimes.

two of em x hs shit

July 28, 2011 @ 09:41 PM
Sam

Post: 345

Join Date: Jan 2008

Studies have shown that intensity is much better than longitivtiy.. Read an article that shows your adrenaline is good for 45 minutes and the first 29 minutes is the peak then slowly goes down.. Once hit 45 minutes, after that u are now just tiring yourself out.. Reason they say do short but intense workouts is much better then doing these long ass routines.. U dont need to workout one part of your body for an hour long... Reason i wasnt feeling the Layne routine, he has like 15 different exercises in one day.. I got tired 3/4 the way through, been then again i was doing heavy for all upper which i dont like either.. U need to split that up which i think this new routine im training is going to be good cause this dude has u doing 4 different phases of 4 different splits.. Then i add my cardio and ab circuits on my off days, to keep my self lean, well see how it works out..

Just let my collar bone heel up for alittle over week.. Didnt want to do any lifting at all, just incase i might screw it up.. Even just a week, i was like this sucks, i just feel lazy.. But in all, i guess it was good cause i let my whole body rest up and let all the repairs happen..


Layne Norton's routine is something else. Scotty, seems like you post on bb.com, would rep you lol.
July 29, 2011 @ 02:00 AM
Scotty

Post: 4714

Join Date: Feb 2009

^ hahaha yeah im on BB.com but i dont use the forum much.. I just read all the articles on there and browse around.. I also use bodyspace as well but havent updated it in abit!

And Yeah Nortons workout is pretty intense, i even modified it a bit and still was a killer so i just stopped doing it and found another one see how it goes.. I might just start my own split routines for exercises that work for me and cut the other bullshit out.. Been trying to work it out but alway go back and be like nope need to change this, hopefully i will get it to where i like it but for now i will just try others.. I really liked the lean program i just finished, one of the best routines but not a routine u can continue on going with after the 12 weeks..
July 30, 2011 @ 05:15 PM
KevBd

Post: 862

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Guelph, Ontario

^^^^^ who's stuff do you read them most? any particular trainers/authors?

two of em x hs shit

July 30, 2011 @ 05:39 PM
Scotty

Post: 4714

Join Date: Feb 2009

^ No one i specifically really.. On BB.com i just read all the new articles that look appealing to me and what i can learn from for my sake and others.. I just read alot of Nutrition articles see what i should be eating, what u shouldnt be eating and why not.. Read on workout routines and exercises for all sorts of different things.. Try to read things have been proven to actually work especially supplements.. Basically just read the new articles when posted or i browse and see what i havent read that looks interesting.. I dont really pay attention much to the authors unless i like the article then i will click to see what else they have wrote..
August 1, 2011 @ 07:57 PM
livestok.

Post: 386

Join Date: Jun 2011

just a bit of a warning to yall. dont ignore your rotator cuff, its used in alot of major lifts. i've had a slight rotator cuff injury the past year or two and although its not crippling sometimes i have to stop working out cuz it just feels so unstable. i never do incline db press anymore cuz i hear a clicking sound when im nearing full extension
August 1, 2011 @ 08:02 PM
livestok.

Post: 386

Join Date: Jun 2011

anyone else here run? used to do track in high school, this summer getting back into it. Trying to get my mile everytime im at the gym i try to run a few miles before and a mile after my workout. i know running can interfere with some of my gains but that its just real satisfying setting a new PR. Right now mile is around 6:30 trying to get under 6:00 one of my goals this year

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