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November 6, 2008 @ 03:38 AM
Darter

Post: 348

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Aliso/Laguna, Cali

how does prop 8 "push shit on churches"?




If prop 8 passed a lot of things could have happened to hurt the church. In another state a church was sued for not renting their location to a gay couple who wanted to get married. I also fear that churches will lose some of their rights to preach against gay marriage because it will be considered a hate speech of sorts. I admit these wouldn't have been the direct effects if prop 8 didn't pass but it is a big step towards that. The thought of churches being penalized for not allowing gay marriage in their church gives me chills. By the way I'm not religious at all I just feel church needs to be respected.
November 6, 2008 @ 09:45 AM
unfuccwittable

Post: 406

Join Date: Oct 2008

If prop 8 passed a lot of things could have happened to hurt the church. In another state a church was sued for not renting their location to a gay couple who wanted to get married. I also fear that churches will lose some of their rights to preach against gay marriage because it will be considered a hate speech of sorts. I admit these wouldn't have been the direct effects if prop 8 didn't pass but it is a big step towards that. The thought of churches being penalized for not allowing gay marriage in their church gives me chills. By the way I'm not religious at all I just feel church needs to be respected.

Churches have the right to refuse to marry ANYONE they want. I think you might need to go READ the actual details of the proposed law. The proposed law didnt say anything about forcing anything upon churches. All it was intended to do was give everyone equal rights under the law.

and the case you made about a church being sued in another state is a very rare case. otherwise, why wouldnt every gay couple in america sue churches for not marrying them. this isnt a widespread issue and it isnt even a concern. secondly, Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion protects the rights of churches to "preach against gays". I fail to see how allowing someone to get married jeopardizes the rights of a church.
November 6, 2008 @ 10:45 AM
CaribQueen

Post: 103

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: 416/718

Yes on Prop 8
Gay Marriage = No No
Gays Adopting would be even worse
November 6, 2008 @ 10:48 AM
Chahin

Post: 335

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: France

^you're gay
November 6, 2008 @ 11:09 AM
aww_fresh

Post: 212

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Helltown Northern Ca...

All people, gay or straight, have a right to love and have private lives, but no one has the right to rewrite definitions, particularly marriage. I personally, don't give a shit about gays doing what they do, but I do give a shit about what they teach in schools. A lot of you won't agree with me on this, mainly because ya'll don't have kids of your own. I have a daughter in pre-school and gay marriage has already been discussed, because some kids in her class have gay parents. If they left that discussion out of schools, I would have easily voted NO on Prop 8, but shit is real. Kids have no business learning about sexual preference at this age. Maybe teach that shit in high school, but not to little kids.
November 6, 2008 @ 11:19 AM
Chahin

Post: 335

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: France

i don't really see how prop 8 and schools are related ...
November 6, 2008 @ 11:32 AM
Calborn

Post: 1599

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: BAY, CALIFAS

He is saying that if Prop 8 were to be rejected, that would make gay marriage legal, and thus the chances of our young children learning that gay marriage is acceptable would become inevitable.
Under part D of the California Education Code 51890 states:
(D) Family health and child development, including the legal and
financial aspects and responsibilities of marriage and parenthood.

Due to this, children even as young as kindergarten-age may be taught about marriage between homosexuals as well as heterosexual marriages.
With what aww_fresh and I believe, is that a subject like that should be reserved for parents themselves to do the teaching at their own discretion, and not have teachers teach such matters at school.

As I grow older, I pay less attention to what men say. I just watch what they do.

November 6, 2008 @ 01:05 PM
SSBSTS

Post: 2609

Join Date: Dec 2006

Location: omaha, des moines

that would make gay marriage legal, and thus the chances of our young children learning that gay marriage is acceptable would become inevitable.


what the fuck does that even matter? it's not going to turn your kids gay, you homophobes.
November 6, 2008 @ 01:07 PM
krn_zmb

Post: 4066

Join Date: Apr 2007

Location: Bay Area

if it was to even be taught in schools, what school actually teaches that shit in pre school and those young age grades. Certainly not schools around me.
I didnt have family health until i was a teen in Middle school and if you dont think thats not the time to learn about that stuff, then when is?
November 6, 2008 @ 01:31 PM
aww_fresh

Post: 212

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Helltown Northern Ca...

what the fuck does that even matter? it's not going to turn your kids gay, you homophobes.


Bitch, it has nothing to do with being a homophobe. Introduce that shit when they're older and understand the context. Just because it hasn't happened yet in your local schools, doesn't mean it's not happening elsewhere. My daughter comes home from school one day at the age of 3 and asks why her friend has 2 dads. How would you feel if you had to explain to your kid about gay marriage at that age. A lot of you don't even have shorties so your opinions are based on what you might feel in the future. For me, it's not a comfortable issue to be discussing. Respect that.
November 6, 2008 @ 01:46 PM
Chahin

Post: 335

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: France

aww poor you having to discuss a serious matter with your daughter : (
November 6, 2008 @ 01:51 PM
aww_fresh

Post: 212

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Helltown Northern Ca...

haha...right. You're from France, so how does all this pertain to your ass?
November 6, 2008 @ 01:54 PM
Chahin

Post: 335

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: France

i'd like usa to be a better place when i'll live there
November 6, 2008 @ 01:55 PM
illy

Post: 1969

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: sandiegocaliforniaba...

You guys took my shit with "sex with dogs" way to far. It was only said to debunk the whole "it doesn't hurt me" and not to say gays are molesters or freaks.

and to illy, You think i don't have a right to speak my opinion because I haven't had an account that long. Am i a second class member or some shit. Debate without taking cheap shots.

The main reason I supported prop 8 was it pushes shit onto churches. I believe in separation of church and state, religion shouldn't have a say in government and government should mess with religion. And to take a religious right and give it to open sinners is wrong. I know everyone sins, divorce, cheating and all that but it just goes to far.


oct 08 member=second class member? yes.
im playin...
could someone explain to me how teaching same sex marriage in schools would be bad, i mean...if it weren't ducktales, how would it be a negative influence on the youth?
yo really, bottom line to me at least is that it has nothing to do with you, your religion, or schools. i plan on getting married ((to a man btw)) and imo, if at that same time, a gay couple makes the same decision, that shouldn't alter what i'm doing. and vice versa. i think its contradictory to say that you're pro human rights, that everyone should be equal, that everyone is given free will, whatever stance you're taking, and then to say "EXCEPT" gay people.
i mean, if you're saying that being gay is unnatural, and that God created all people but gave them the free will to "decide" if they're gay...i mean, that doesn't sound at all backwards, or ill thought out to you? Did he just create people and give them the free will to be straight to? Or did he create everyone straight and gave them the free will to go against that? you seriously believe that people choose, or many a conscious decision to be homosexual. yo, you don't choose who you love, you don't choose how you are. you find who you are, and you come to terms with it. asking someone to deny that, or feel guilty for who they are, or what they want, is wrong.

also, i'm kind of proud right now that people are fighting the yes on prop 8 decision. just shows that this debate, as heated and controversial as it is, is nowhere near over.

peace.
November 6, 2008 @ 01:59 PM
aww_fresh

Post: 212

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: Helltown Northern Ca...

Well my intent is to just discuss, and avoid immature discussion alltogether. I understand your point man, and I could respect that. But, you're 19 (which I consider to be young) and you're going around this thread calling people "gay". Like I said, my shorty is 3, and there's no way I can have a serious discussion with her at that age. Just my opinion.

For the record, I don't have a problem with gays doing their thang. Have a civil union or whatnot, but I do have a problem with some schools enforcing the education of gay marriage, especially to young kids that don't need to be knowing about sexual preference. Teach that in middle school or high school, and have them make their own conclusions.
November 6, 2008 @ 02:02 PM
Chahin

Post: 335

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: France

schools shouldn't talk about gay or heterosexual stuff at age 3 anyway

all i'm saying is that is has nothing to do with prop 8
November 6, 2008 @ 04:32 PM
SSBSTS

Post: 2609

Join Date: Dec 2006

Location: omaha, des moines

A lot of you don't even have shorties so your opinions are based on what you might feel in the future. For me, it's not a comfortable issue to be discussing. Respect that.


maybe it's not comfortable because you are a homophobe. i have a 3 yo daughter as well and if she asked i would tell her sometimes dudes marry dudes and girls marry girls and guys marry girls depending on who you end up loving. end of story. no big deal.
November 6, 2008 @ 04:52 PM
Augustus

Post: 731

Join Date: May 2007

Location: NYC

Bitch, it has nothing to do with being a homophobe. Introduce that shit when they're older and understand the context. Just because it hasn't happened yet in your local schools, doesn't mean it's not happening elsewhere. My daughter comes home from school one day at the age of 3 and asks why her friend has 2 dads. How would you feel if you had to explain to your kid about gay marriage at that age. A lot of you don't even have shorties so your opinions are based on what you might feel in the future. For me, it's not a comfortable issue to be discussing. Respect that.


Your daughter is taught about gay marriage at the age of 3? No fucking wonder she comes home all confused. I would probably have the teacher fired for teaching something controversial to children who are younger than 10. Yet again, children being exposed to gay marriage is a weak argument for prop 8. We are talking about rights here. If you want to argue about what schools teach, thats a whole another argument.

@QuattroRide

November 6, 2008 @ 05:34 PM
krn_zmb

Post: 4066

Join Date: Apr 2007

Location: Bay Area

The whole thing about prop 8 has no requirement about teaching kids in school about same sex marriage. If No on 8 won, there wouldnt be a course on teaching kids this. This what most of you don't understand about prop 8.

"The original arguments included a claim that the Supreme Court's legalization of same-sex marriage requires teachers to tell their students, as young as kindergarten age, that same-sex marriage is the same as opposite-sex marriage. The court said the Yes on 8 argument was false because instruction on marriage is not required and parents can withdraw their children."

On all those sites such as Whatisprop8.com where they say that they are trying to make it a standard to teaching kids about marriage, is false. It may give the teachers the right to teach them but it does not force teachers at school to teach about these subjects. No where on the ballot that i voted on the day of elections said such a thing or any mention of schools. Simply, "Eliminating Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry"
November 6, 2008 @ 05:36 PM
Chahin

Post: 335

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: France

^truth
November 6, 2008 @ 09:45 PM
ZGsoccer3

Post: 182

Join Date: Aug 2008

who cares, i live in washington state! woot
November 6, 2008 @ 10:07 PM
DonPedro

Post: 1242

Join Date: Nov 2007

Location: santa ana zoo

who cares, i live in washington state! woot


die slow

Bitch, it has nothing to do with being a homophobe. Introduce that shit when they're older and understand the context. Just because it hasn't happened yet in your local schools, doesn't mean it's not happening elsewhere. My daughter comes home from school one day at the age of 3 and asks why her friend has 2 dads. How would you feel if you had to explain to your kid about gay marriage at that age. A lot of you don't even have shorties so your opinions are based on what you might feel in the future. For me, it's not a comfortable issue to be discussing. Respect that.


so you don't want people to marry the ones they love because you don't want to talk to your kid for 5 minutes.
November 6, 2008 @ 10:08 PM
ZGsoccer3

Post: 182

Join Date: Aug 2008

some people need to chill
November 6, 2008 @ 11:45 PM
Highagain

Post: 4

Join Date: Sep 2008

wow its refreshing to see some actual intelligent debate going on without bullshit gifs and OD fuck yous and what not. i gotta hang out here a lil more often.
November 7, 2008 @ 02:31 AM
unfuccwittable

Post: 406

Join Date: Oct 2008

so basically you're saying dont teach it in school, just teach it in school later in life? good job on making sense.

what people fail to realise is, sex education is taught in school even if your kids aren't in the class. EVERY KID IN AMERICA learns about sex, sexual positions, sexual orientations in school. its a part of life. at some point in your child's life, they will learn about gay people. you shouldn't rely on the government to shelter your children from learning about life. face it. homosexuals are a part of life.

and even if they were to teach kindergarteners about gay marriage, why would you attack the rights of other people and not just go before the school board and have them alter the curriculum so that that type of subject matter is taught until high school? thats what the religious zealots have been trying to do for years on the subject of evolution. alter the curriculum so it isnt taught in school. why should this be any different an issue? why do you have to prevent people from being happy? homosexual people aren't trying to force their beliefs on anyone. they are trying to live their lives normally like everybody else.

Calborn: In regards to this:

Under part D of the California Education Code 51890 states:
(D) Family health and child development, including the legal and
financial aspects and responsibilities of marriage and parenthood.

What isn't printed there (not saying its your fault, it just might not be in there), is the fact that sex education isn't taught until students reach a certain age and that before any type of sexual instruction is given, students must take home a parental consent form and have their parents sign it before they can partake in lessons. if the parent(s) do not want to have their children learn these things, they can have their child opt out, and the child will go to another class and study/learn something else while the instruction is being given. at least thats how it was when I was in school. I knew a few kids who just said their parents didnt want them to learn it so they didnt have to do homework and shit. but i digress.

at the end of the day though, if this were just about not having little children learn about gay marriage, there are plenty of other avenues to explore prevent that other than taking away someone's rights. which is why i feel like this isn't even about children and it's more about forcing one's views upon a certain group of people with whom they dont like/disagree with. i believe there's a word for that sort of thing. Prejudice? Discrimination? it slips my mind at the moment. oh well.

If you still aren't convinced, find a 6 year old kid, and ask them if they know what a gay person is. If they know, ask them where they learned it. I'll wager a dollar that they say friends at school or something along those lines.
November 7, 2008 @ 03:16 AM
Calborn

Post: 1599

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: BAY, CALIFAS

As I have stated before, matters such as these truly depend on the person and their OWN morals, values, and what they regard with high priority.
In my own honest opinion, I do not feel comfortable with the fact that my young kids would be subjected to the possibility of being taught that marriages between homosexuals is "normal," because of the fact that it is a direct contradiction to the beliefs I wish to instill in my children.
For others, like many of you, there is definitely no problem whatsoever with your children being taught about homosexual marriages and such, and I have no problem with that. As stated before, people have their own sets of convictions that I am aware of and respect, because I am none to judge.

As I grow older, I pay less attention to what men say. I just watch what they do.

November 7, 2008 @ 09:29 AM
SSBSTS

Post: 2609

Join Date: Dec 2006

Location: omaha, des moines

In my own honest opinion, I do not feel comfortable with the fact that my young kids would be subjected to the possibility of being taught that marriages between homosexuals is "normal," because of the fact that it is a direct contradiction to the beliefs I wish to instill in my children.


ok, so you admit you're a bigot and want to instill bigotry in your offspring. go fuck yourself.
November 7, 2008 @ 10:15 AM
unfuccwittable

Post: 406

Join Date: Oct 2008

As I have stated before, matters such as these truly depend on the person and their OWN morals, values, and what they regard with high priority.
In my own honest opinion, I do not feel comfortable with the fact that my young kids would be subjected to the possibility of being taught that marriages between homosexuals is "normal," because of the fact that it is a direct contradiction to the beliefs I wish to instill in my children.
For others, like many of you, there is definitely no problem whatsoever with your children being taught about homosexual marriages and such, and I have no problem with that. As stated before, people have their own sets of convictions that I am aware of and respect, because I am none to judge.

like i've already said, they dont teach those things to young children. they dont teach those things until students reach a certain age group. and if you don't want kids to learn something like that, speak with the school board and ask for the curriculum to be changed. this is a very easy process. my uncle works for the Los Angeles Unified School District (Educator for 20+ years), and says that this happens all the time.

but like i said earlier, you don't want that. you want to take rights away from people, at the expense of your own humanity. if not having kids learn this was truly a concern for you, there are plenty of ways to go about stopping that. you could even speak with the individual school and ask that your child be sent out of class while that type of instruction is being taught. but you don't wanna do that. you just want to force your beliefs on other people and completely ignore their sovereignty. i understand. that's fine, i just want you to say (type) it. just say it. you don't give a damn about the rights of other people if it doesn't coincide with what you believe. Freedom and equality for all, as long as they share your beliefs. AMIRITE? AMIRITE?





Side note:
aww_fresh:
your child didnt actually learn about gay marriage in school. it wasn't part of the curriculum (from what i've gleaned from your post). one of your child's classmates has two fathers and your child wanted to know why. why is that hard to explain to a child? im not exactly sure. Is the phrase, "When two people love each other very much, they decide to get married so they can be together forever" hard to say? In my experience, when a child asks an awkward question such as that, answers like that are the most suitable. You dont have to go into great detail about it, because they are children and they don't need to know about things like that until they are mature enough to handle it.
November 7, 2008 @ 11:03 AM
dabears

Post: 16

Join Date: Oct 2008


but like i said earlier, you don't want that. you want to take rights away from people, at the expense of your own humanity. if not having kids learn this was truly a concern for you, there are plenty of ways to go about stopping that. you could even speak with the individual school and ask that your child be sent out of class while that type of instruction is being taught. but you don't wanna do that. you just want to force your beliefs on other people and completely ignore their sovereignty. i understand. that's fine, i just want you to say (type) it. just say it. you don't give a damn about the rights of other people if it doesn't coincide with what you believe. Freedom and equality for all, as long as they share your beliefs. AMIRITE? AMIRITE?


^^ truth.
You basically support an affirmation of your own beliefs that intentionally restricts the freedom of other people simply because they live their life in a way you see unfit.

Regarding gay marriage being discussed or taught in schools - you still have the option to have your child opt out of it AND to ensure that the beliefs you instill in them outside of the classroom are strong. Don't act like kids believe that everything they learn in school is right.

That's the very reason that I never said "in God we trust" at the end of the pledge of allegiance that we recited every day in elementary school - we were taught that it was the thing to do, but I didn't do that shit because I didn't believe in it.

That being said - homosexuals CAN'T get married. They don't even have the option.
November 7, 2008 @ 05:20 PM
pnsho

Post: 6871

Join Date: Jan 2007


That being said - homosexuals CAN'T get married. They don't even have the option.


wut

Didn't a bunch of homosexuals get married a few months ago?

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