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December 28, 2009 @ 09:58 PM
gaws

Post: 2512

Join Date: Apr 2007

Location: Toronto

I'm existentialist, and believe in some athiesm. However, I'm not ignorant. The closest I've ever been to ever going to church is i once went in to talk to a priest. I wanted to know why he believed in what he did and how he feels about some of the issues that are going on today, how they relate to religion etc. I just wanted to get a look into the mind of someone who has dedicated their lives to a religion, versus me who doesn't believe in it.

However, I don't think there's a direct correlation between going to church and getting saved. In fact, that sounds pretty presumptuous.

What exactly is getting saved? Is there a concrete definition? Does everyone has the same definition of saved and can everyone go about it in the same way? Can you guarantee that by going to church I'll be saved?

you know what I mean, we don't need to turn this into a philosophical debate about existence

Real=Existing


I can if you want me to.

Real does not always mean Existing.
December 28, 2009 @ 10:24 PM
Juki

Post: 2146

Join Date: Aug 2008

Hey at least clothes and shoes are real.


Haha good comeback but Id rather worship something "imaginary" worth believing in than a shirt or pair shoes not even worth the money spent on it.

I think Mahatma Gandhi aptly expressed many of the opinions I've came across on this thread, here's a few of his quotes:

[INDENT][INDENT]"

Doubleclutchhoops.com

December 28, 2009 @ 10:26 PM
soulamazing.

Post: 5498

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Adverse City.

people should just stop making religious threads like these. all that ever happens in them is that they get chewed up by the atheists. some of the atheists bring up some valid points and i respect that, but these other nigggas just hop on the band wagon and think it's cool to be atheist and not believe in some other supernatural divine being type mess so they just come up in here and say fuck religion and what not. but real shit you need to shut the fuck up and respect other people's beliefs. If someone wants to believe in God/Jesus let him do him duu. You can argue your point on why you think your right, but when you start putting them down that shts not right. and if you do try to put someone down you better have some good justified reasons ie: they sacrificed your mother or some sht to an idol or what not. whether you have a religion or not we all share the same ethical and moral values.

Word.
you know what I mean, we don't need to turn this into a philosophical debate about existence

Real=Existing

What is existence? Can you prove to me that a God doesn't exist? On the contrary, I can't prove to you that God does exist, but it's all a part of faith.

Anyways, there are enough ignorant and disrespectful people coming into this thread. Mods, you guys should close this thread up soon. Gonna be nothing but hate, hate, hate, hate and hate.
December 28, 2009 @ 10:30 PM
kidkorea

Post: 2696

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: Seoul, South Korea

My Experiences/Thoughts

I consider myself a Christian, and go to church every Sunday to listen to my Pastor speak(he's an amazing speaker). I don't consider myself a very religious person but what I have come to like about Christianity is that is advocates good things and promotes good behavior and that's something that is important to every human being. I necessarily don't try to become a better Christian but I do want to become a better person to my family, friends, and the people around me. I do agree that many Christians are hypocrites but that's just people in general. I do agree with many of you that I dislike many of the Christians that try to force/impose their religion on other people, I don't think it works but rather turns them away.

I do feel a sense of peace after every Sunday and I feel very encouraged for the week ahead of me.

I don't read the bible very often but when I do it only advocates positive behavior.

And overall, most of my Christian friends (yes they sin just like ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING) but I do feel more comfortable around them because I know they have a better sense of morals than my non-Christian friends. I feel like I can trust them a bit more (Of course this is not all of them but most of them). Also going to church every sunday serves as kinda like a reminder and encouragement for me to become an overall better person.

I truly think that our lives on this earth don't end with our death. What would be the purpose of our existence then? if it's just to live on earth for all these years and then just die and it be the end?? I think it's just a phase in our lives and there is definitely something greater and longer planned for each and every one of us. Even a hundred years on earth seems like only a fraction of what our existence is going to be. Our physical bodies might be dead but I think there is something greater planned for our spirit/mind. Our lives now simply cannot be meaningless.

ii-se.co Instagram: @iiseSEOUL Search "iise" on Facebook and like the page to support!

December 29, 2009 @ 03:53 AM
Cake

Post: 89

Join Date: Apr 2008

i sure hope that 9 year old kid in phnom phen forced to suck old white man dick for a living finds christ to show him direction in life otherwise he would have to spend an eternity in hell for commiting sins that were out of his control, amidoingitright?
December 29, 2009 @ 04:04 AM
$KickaPop$

Post: 428

Join Date: Oct 2009

Location: Domesville

kickapop you're too stupid to have come up with any of those original thoughts

however original you think they are, they are borrowed or stolen from other people's ideas through the internet or any other form of media

any shit you've read in a book(dawkins) or looked up online has been amassed into that post

don't fucking act like you're original when it comes to atheist shit

I was and may still be the authority on that shit, i've read The God Problem, i've read some excerpts from Charles Darwin "The Origin of Species"

the many themes that you stolen have all been addressed before


Subbie, are you that insecure to believe that Darwin composed ALL of the forementioned theories and expressive opinions on religion? I think not.

I'm stupid? I bet I'm smarter than you friend. Period.
December 29, 2009 @ 04:05 AM
$KickaPop$

Post: 428

Join Date: Oct 2009

Location: Domesville

and kids like yourself will stay naive in your britches.


Dawg, do you know what naive means? Look up the definition of religion and get back at me. Until then, fall back.
December 29, 2009 @ 04:20 AM
efa5

Post: 94

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: Vancouver

Haha good comeback but Id rather worship something "imaginary" worth believing in than a shirt or pair shoes not even worth the money spent on it.




Blah Blah Blah, If Gandhi liked Christ soo much then why isnt he Christian and showing people how to do it right. The fact is Christianity isnt a religion of how good you can be or how much you dont sin. It about faith and believing in Christ message and then TRYING to live like him just like morally most people TRY to live good lives no matter what they believe in. Gandhi just contradicts himself how can he judge a faith based religion based on whole religion by mistakes humans have made. Being Christian doesn't equal perfection.

Was Ghandi perfect, who is he to judge? He was suposivly a good man but I wont cosign his religion just because he did some good things in his life cause I dont believe in it. What a weak argument.


Unfortunately, it seems you have missed the entirety of what I was pointing out...

thread had potential .....


Seems to be the case. But there were some interesting ideas brought up in the discourse, I actually just wanted to hear the OP's story...
December 29, 2009 @ 06:11 AM
Skunk

Post: 202

Join Date: May 2008

Location: Brooklyn, New York C...

how do you know that you actually "exist"? For all you know this is some fabricated space time continuum and your actually unconscious in an artificial reality that responds to you.


daaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnn
December 29, 2009 @ 06:11 AM
soap

Post: 2151

Join Date: Aug 2006

Shots fired


faughts shired
December 29, 2009 @ 08:07 AM
misteranonymou

Post: 194

Join Date: Jan 2009

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

- Bertrand Russel

Faith is a joke, I'm sorry. Enjoy feeling guilty and repenting for every single time you lust, cuss, fuck, smoke, drink, laugh, cry, walk, and etc. You stupid religious nuts aren't worthy to be in your own kingdom because your "god" says so. smile
December 29, 2009 @ 08:25 AM
Nigga Man

Post: 1492

Join Date: Oct 2009

Haha good comeback but Id rather worship something "imaginary" worth believing in than a shirt or pair shoes not even worth the money spent on it.


Alright you go ahead and walk around naked and I'll ball out in these Evisus.
December 29, 2009 @ 09:17 AM
James Bond 007

Post: 606

Join Date: Dec 2006

This is an awkward setting to discuss something like religion, this is more of a conversation to have amongst your friends.

This isnt the first time it has come up though, one time I got targeted on Facebook of all places, some random guy FR me and I added him, and next thing I know he writes on my wall about "saving me from myself" and a bunch of religious bullshit, and I ripped into him pretty tough considering he was a preacher.
December 29, 2009 @ 11:59 AM
$KickaPop$

Post: 428

Join Date: Oct 2009

Location: Domesville

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

- Bertrand Russel

Faith is a joke, I'm sorry. Enjoy feeling guilty and repenting for every single time you lust, cuss, fuck, smoke, drink, laugh, cry, walk, and etc. You stupid religious nuts aren't worthy to be in your own kingdom because your "god" says so. smile


This is on point.
December 29, 2009 @ 10:24 PM
Movement187

Post: 394

Join Date: Sep 2009

Dawg, do you know what naive means? Look up the definition of religion and get back at me. Until then, fall back.


Religion - A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

If you believe that there is no God, then Atheism is you religion. So don't say religion is for stupid people because everyone has one. Atheists even have their own church btw. You just ran into this thread pants down my dude.
December 29, 2009 @ 10:26 PM
Juicy J

Post: 1422

Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: Memphis

|0

WE TRIPPY MANE

December 29, 2009 @ 11:22 PM
northwest

Post: 4033

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Seattle, WA

a while back i went to church for the first time in years and it felt pretty good and cleansing. all these old people treat you well and all that good shit. just havent gotten around to going back. im not too faithful and am a skeptical person. i need to see some scientific evidence that proves that a "God" exists. right now, in the year of 2009, there is way more information going against a potential "God" or anything and little supporting the idea. i am neutral..
December 29, 2009 @ 11:23 PM
chaobro

Post: 1403

Join Date: Oct 2007

Location: Japan

i always thought it was funny how a lot of 'athiests' dont even fully immerse themselves into something in order to say that they dont believe it

you all look stupid
December 29, 2009 @ 11:55 PM
TwiggyDig

Post: 2416

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Bronx, New York / Lo...

i always thought it was funny how a lot of 'athiests' dont even fully immerse themselves into something in order to say that they dont believe it

you all look stupid


i always thought it was funny how 'theists' believe in an invisible man in the sky, and then use that invisible man to justify and radical belief, no matter how far fetched
you all look stupid
December 30, 2009 @ 12:40 AM
Movement187

Post: 394

Join Date: Sep 2009

i always thought it was funny how 'theists' believe in an invisible man in the sky, and then use that invisible man to justify and radical belief, no matter how far fetched
you all look stupid


Man? lolwut? You just poved chao's point.
December 30, 2009 @ 01:00 AM
STI Guy

Post: 4516

Join Date: Jan 2007

Location: nyc

^not exactly. the argument goes both ways.
December 30, 2009 @ 09:24 AM
Nigga Man

Post: 1492

Join Date: Oct 2009

i always thought it was funny how a lot of 'athiests' dont even fully immerse themselves into something in order to say that they dont believe it

you all look stupid


au contraire

Alot of Atheists came out of religious family's.
December 30, 2009 @ 10:16 AM
TyLeR

Post: 48

Join Date: Aug 2008

Thanks to all the people that provided mature discussions on religion, and not debating whether or not what someone should believe. It is called faith for a reason.

I am a christian yet I still find it very interesting to read what others have to say as long as it is mature and not ignorant.

smile

Keep this thread alive as long as accurate discussions are still on point.
It's a way for us to become more knowledgeable on the subject.
December 30, 2009 @ 10:17 AM
sfree

Post: 178

Join Date: Feb 2009

can someone explain excorcisms to me?
December 30, 2009 @ 12:36 PM
Super Nintendo Chalmers

Post: 4504

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: on the interwebz

au contraire

Alot of Atheists came out of religious family's.


A lot of those atheist have more issues with the people than the beliefs, and don't know the beliefs that well to begin with. Trust me. I do a lot of debating.



What exactly is getting saved? Is there a concrete definition? Does everyone has the same definition of saved and can everyone go about it in the same way? Can you guarantee that by going to church I'll be saved?



According to the canonized Christian scripture, good works can't save you. So no, attending a church doesn't save. Also, according to the same scripture, there is evidence that you're saved. It's starts with God initiating, and the progress is seen in how your nature changes from having a total inclination toward sin, to now having a new nature in which you now desire to please God....and there lies the issue. The sinful instinct doesn't die. But sin doesn't negate salvation.

i sure hope that 9 year old kid in phnom phen forced to suck old white man dick for a living finds christ to show him direction in life otherwise he would have to spend an eternity in hell for commiting sins that were out of his control, amidoingitright?


Almost. If he/she went to hell, it wouldn't be for sins beyond his/her control. It'd be for original sin which we're all born with...which is why we learn how to lie, steal, disrespect authority without anyone even teaching us. It's human nature.

"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."

- Bertrand Russel

Faith is a joke, I'm sorry. Enjoy feeling guilty and repenting for every single time you lust, cuss, fuck, smoke, drink, laugh, cry, walk, and etc. You stupid religious nuts aren't worthy to be in your own kingdom because your "god" says so. smile


The flaw in his analogy is that we're not just claiming that something exists....we're claiming that the someone who exists created everything around us. And although there is currently minimal empirical evidence (considered credible by the atheistic scientific community) to prove there is a God, there is plenty of empirical evidence coupled with logic to suggest that there must/could have been a creator. The mathematic probability of these things happening without a cause is beyond the model that we give it (millions of years). The intracacies of life. The probability that a planet would have the proper molecules to form a cell that would have an instinct to split, multiply, mutate, over and over again until it evolved into both vegetation AND animals....what are the odds? Why are there other planets out there that are older than us and still haven't produced life? Why are we, such a young planet, able to produce life from random chance? Honestly, I respect extra terrestrial seeding theories more than I respect the logic of atheistic origin theories. It's ironic, though, that for a group that emphasises empiricism, they embrace that which they haven't seen for themselves.

And btw, according to the scripture, our God DOES say we're not worthy. And we aren't saved by our own merit or worth. We're saved by grace and mercy. I obey out of gratitude, not fear.




science: necessary for the advancement and well being of human life.

religion: unnecessary and not beneficial to the advancement and well being of human life.

we can live without one hurting us. i choose getting rid of religion.


I agree. On a totally naturalistic approach, we don't need religion to survive. That raises a question that Darwin also asked. Why did we come up with religion then? If our sole instinct was to survive, and there was no survival benefit to religion, why and how did we develop religion and morality?


agree with all your points except for the bold

Jews, Muslims, and the Eastern Orthodox Churches all believe he was a man and they are Judeo-Christian religions

funny how people put christians all in the same box when the different sects have so many different beliefs. (ie orthodox churches believing Jesus was man rather than God)


?? Orthodox Christianity? Do your research yo. Dudes from Augustine to Martin Luther held to the divinity of Jesus. Not sure what orthodoxy you're referring to.


Yes, that was one of the reasons. It made God seem too human.

I also read a few creation myths from the civilizations around the area and they all had similarities. Particularly the great flood story. This seems to show that at least a few parts in the Bible are derived from older stories from older civilizations.

The Bible as it is now also did not exist then. It was created by Emperor Justinian (I think thats the right emperor) who commissioned it. Also, there were more than 4 gospels.

Also, the claims that God is all knowing and all powerful did not make sense in my view. As well as the claim that Christianity is the only true path to salvation. There is nothing that holds Christianity above Islam, Buddhism, Baha'i, Hinduism, Mormonism, Zoroastrianism, etc.


Research proves that oral tradition and history can be passed on for hundreds of years without distortion. That being the case, why would it disprove the Genesis account if even older records indicate the same info? What if that wasn't just a myth, but a first hand account? And after hundreds of years it started to get watered down, and in Genesis it was corrected where it needed correcting?

The bible as it is now didn't exist then. Well, except the old testament. All that was done there was the addition of chapters and verses. The new testament had to deal with much more because of so many people who were trying to jump on the hype train. There had to be an orginazation to seperate the fake from the real. All the new testament scriptures were matched up with the old testament to confirm validity and consistency. Books like the maccabees were taken out because it was more of a historical account. Not considered divine. Esdras was taken out because it was more of an allegorical story. A good uplifting story, but fictional..not considered divine. Back in the old testament, while the jews were enslaved king cyrus (not a jew) told them to go and rebuild their temple. In the case of the emperor telling the religious men to canonize the bible (as we know it now) is not much different. If God is real, then he's powerful enough to orchestrate such events to ensure that His message to us is accurate.


Again, I can't convince a person to believe. I get along with atheists that are cool, moral (according to their view), peaceful, intelligent dudes who aren't angry at religion. I think what both sides hate is people trying to shove their beliefs onto them. Like, yo, Mr Atheist....can you please stop insulting, mocking, and hating me? I'm not affecting you. Leave me alone yo. If you wanna talk about it, be a big boy about it. And vice versa, the peaceful educated atheists are like "Hey Mr. Christian, if I tell you I don't feel like talking about it, can you let it go? Can you stop treating me like trash? Can you stop acting like you're better than me? Can you stop being so obnoxious?"

If I say your soul is on the line, and you say you don't care, well, live and let live. And if you think I'm a moron for believing in what I feel rather that what I see, then live and let live. Yaggadaming?
December 30, 2009 @ 12:53 PM
Potsnu

Post: 1236

Join Date: Nov 2007

Location: Toronto, Canada

God's plan is an excuse for your shortcomings as an individual. I get irritated every time someone wins an Oscar, Emmy, Grammy, etc. and the first person they thank is God. You won that award through your hard work, preservation, and talent. Yet if they fail at life, then their excuse is "God has better plans for me". Keep telling yourself that as an excuse to your own shortcomings.

Whether you succeed or fail in life, it's entirely up to your own determination. However, I could see how some misguided people in our society needs the help of God to find meaning in their life. Otherwise, they may feel insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Some people just need the comfort of knowing if they live a good life, then they will go to Heaven.

Strong minded people don't need this comfort, they just live their lives with their own moral principles and take responsibility for their own actions.
December 30, 2009 @ 01:05 PM
kweetofu

Post: 34

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Cerritos, CA

i grew up a christian, born in a christian family, yet i strayed away and have been calling myself agnostic for the past couple months. i have too many questions and not enough answers so i began to fall away from god.

my dad recently persuaded me to go to this church conference in exchange for $$$ cool

at this conference, i didnt expect anything of it.. ive gone to retreats multiple times throughout my life and this time i still didnt care. yet one night, i was sitting in the back of the service while everyone else is up in the front praising. the holy spirit was supposedly in the room and people were shaking, laughing, crying uncontrollably.

previously, i had heard of a testimony about a lesbian lady who was on the verge of committing suicide yet one of her friends told her to give god a chance at least once. she did and she said god if youre really out there, come to me. and he did. i thought it was bullshit and in my mind i thought.. ive called out to god before yet he never came to me. in that same room where everyone was praising, a ghostly figure seemed to appear in the seat in front of me and turn around. in my mind, words popped up out of nowhere as if someone was trying to talk to me, and he said, my son this is what i want to give to you. he was referring to the happiness i saw in the other christians praising up in the front. i couldnt believe it so if it was really god, i tried asking some questions. i asked why are some people unfairly raised compared to others who get it so good? arent you the almighty god? arent you supposed to be fair? he simply returned with 2 words. in time.

after this experience, my lifestyle hasnt changed. i blazed it up just yesterday after the conference and have no intention of giving my life to god. however, i just wanna say that i personally believe there is a god. a lot of the times, science and evidence is really conflicting and often makes people believe there is no god, yet i hope you guys keep an open heart to it and maybe one day you'll see the power of the holy spirit.

and please dont base your opinions on christians based off of the ones you have met and you dont like. a lot of the times i feel like christians are hypocritical but at the same time, that's not what god wants christians to represent. keep an open heart and maybe youll meet a genuine christian who really wants to share the love, without ostracizing you or making you feel lesser because in this world, we are all sinners. christians are no better.
December 30, 2009 @ 01:11 PM
Potsnu

Post: 1236

Join Date: Nov 2007

Location: Toronto, Canada

The flaw in his analogy is that we're not just claiming that something exists....we're claiming that the someone who exists created everything around us. And although there is currently minimal empirical evidence (considered credible by the atheistic scientific community) to prove there is a God, there is plenty of empirical evidence coupled with logic to suggest that there must/could have been a creator. The mathematic probability of these things happening without a cause is beyond the model that we give it (millions of years). The intracacies of life. The probability that a planet would have the proper molecules to form a cell that would have an instinct to split, multiply, mutate, over and over again until it evolved into both vegetation AND animals....what are the odds? Why are there other planets out there that are older than us and still haven't produced life? Why are we, such a young planet, able to produce life from random chance? Honestly, I respect extra terrestrial seeding theories more than I respect the logic of atheistic origin theories. It's ironic, though, that for a group that emphasises empiricism, they embrace that which they haven't seen for themselves.


I often have long debated discussions with my Christian friend about this very topic. I always appreciate a discussion with a difference in opinion, yet still able to respect the other side of the coin.

While I'm atheist in nature, I consider myself rather knowledgeable about Christianity for someone who doesn't follow the path. To great length, I wondered why certain people follow the path of God and others the empirical reasoning of science. I've come up with several ideas and I would like to hear your thought.

First off, according to science we are rather insiginificant living cells in a planet out of billions, in a galaxy out of millions in the entire Universe. In a nutshell, our very existence in the Universe is rather insignificant. Our lives, our actions, our morality doesn't really matter. Since once we die, our lives will be part of a natural cycle of life. Some people can't accept this reality. It's harsh, it doesn't bring meaning to life. This is where religion comes into play.

Religion allows guidance for certain people in society who need it. After all, the fundamentals of our judicial system is loosely based on the 10 Commandments. Therefore, I agree in the functional aspect of religion for providing natural order to society and providing guidance for people in society who need it. Some people need to find significance in their lives, that there is life after death. Who wouldn't go to Heaven? It sounds like a pretty nice place compared to the alternative of the fiery depths of Hell.

One major issue I have with religion is the lack of choice. Well what do I mean? Religion should be about personal choice, your own choice to follow a deity. However, is religion really a personal choice for most people who follow a path? Or is it simply a choice presented at childhood through your parents, when you don't have the choice to deny them or have the mental capacity to make this choice?

Let's face it, if your parents are Christian then the probability of you being Christian is almost definite. In the case of Baptism, the choice was already made for you. How often do you see a Muslim in a Christian family? Rarely, if not almost improbable. So how does one grow up following certain moral principles without questioning it or making the choice willingly? I guess the counter argument is that once you are of age to make such a rational choice, you have already been conditioned to make this inevitable choice. Choice of religion at the end of the day is rather subjective, you will choose what you're familiar with.

The other topic I tend to discuss often is the whole notion of human evolution. Most Christians would agree that the whole notion of evolution is fundamentally contradictory to principles of religion. Yet we still have vestiges that are anatomical proof that we have gone through stages of human evolution. Our appendix can easily be removed and exist as a testament to early stages of life when we had more of a plant diet requiring the use of an appendix to break down such vegetation. Our pinky toes exist out of balance when we evolved from walking on all 4's to standing upright. These evidence of human evolution can not be discarded, yet fundamentally it contradicts with religion. A more interesting question would be, why would God in his infinite wisdom create human anatomical parts that are essentially useless?

Lastly, I think a huge part of why I'm atheist is not my lack of belief in religion itself but rather whole notion of faith. Do you believe that humans follow the path of God out of moral imperative, or rather the fear of divine retribution? If there were no legal and religious consequences, would we still not steal, sleep with thy neighbor's wife, commit infidelity, or murder?

While I do believe in certain parts of the Bible, I find the whole concept of faith relies on believing the Bible in its whole entirety. That's another problem I have. For instance, what if I believe there was a man named Noah who did in fact created an Ark to avoid the great flood, along with Moses leading the Jews across the desert? But yet I don't believe in Eve being created from Adam's rib or that David killed Goliath with a slingshot? Do you see my point here? It requires me to believe in the Bible in its full entirety, there is no middle ground here.

I would like to hear your thoughts.
December 30, 2009 @ 01:15 PM
Potsnu

Post: 1236

Join Date: Nov 2007

Location: Toronto, Canada

i grew up a christian, born in a christian family, yet i strayed away and have been calling myself agnostic for the past couple months. i have too many questions and not enough answers so i began to fall away from god.

my dad recently persuaded me to go to this church conference in exchange for $$$ cool

at this conference, i didnt expect anything of it.. ive gone to retreats multiple times throughout my life and this time i still didnt care. yet one night, i was sitting in the back of the service while everyone else is up in the front praising. the holy spirit was supposedly in the room and people were shaking, laughing, crying uncontrollably.

previously, i had heard of a testimony about a lesbian lady who was on the verge of committing suicide yet one of her friends told her to give god a chance at least once. she did and she said god if youre really out there, come to me. and he did. i thought it was bullshit and in my mind i thought.. ive called out to god before yet he never came to me. in that same room where everyone was praising, a ghostly figure seemed to appear in the seat in front of me and turn around. in my mind, words popped up out of nowhere as if someone was trying to talk to me, and he said, my son this is what i want to give to you. he was referring to the happiness i saw in the other christians praising up in the front. i couldnt believe it so if it was really god, i tried asking some questions. i asked why are some people unfairly raised compared to others who get it so good? arent you the almighty god? arent you supposed to be fair? he simply returned with 2 words. in time.

after this experience, my lifestyle hasnt changed. i blazed it up just yesterday after the conference and have no intention of giving my life to god. however, i just wanna say that i personally believe there is a god. a lot of the times, science and evidence is really conflicting and often makes people believe there is no god, yet i hope you guys keep an open heart to it and maybe one day you'll see the power of the holy spirit.

and please dont base your opinions on christians based off of the ones you have met and you dont like. a lot of the times i feel like christians are hypocritical but at the same time, that's not what god wants christians to represent. keep an open heart and maybe youll meet a genuine christian who really wants to share the love, without ostracizing you or making you feel lesser because in this world, we are all sinners. christians are no better.


People will see what they want to see. I don't doubt for a minute that the placebo effect is evident in certain situations for religious people. The mind is a powerful tool, yet if they find comfort from it I'm all for it.

I do agree that most Christians can be hypocritical. The problem I have is that they feel their God is absolute, that no other Gods exist.

A common question that is asked is why certain people have better lives than others. Why do good people get murdered or have cancer? Yet Christians really have a hard time explaining this one other than "God has better plans for you". Buddhism explains this in an interesting light, which I think is much more plausible. The fundamental principle of Buddhism is reincarnation. The shortcomings of your life, the punishment, the fairness and equality or your life compared to others can be explained by your actions in your previous life. If you have cancer despite living a good life, it's a punishment from your actions in your last life.
December 30, 2009 @ 01:19 PM
kilogram

Post: 1540

Join Date: Aug 2009

Location: Gaza

david, i'm all for you saying whatever the fuck you want about religion, but please don't bring that shit about young earth in here, it's really weakening

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBrIBs3YRWI


oh and i'm not totally convinced with string theory, but the cosmological implications of what this guy is talking about makes sense.

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