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May 4, 2010 @ 07:08 PM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009


wot.motortrend.com/6641893/auto-news/lightness-leaked-porsche-planning-911-gt2-rs/index.html

620hp, under 3000 lbs, laps the ring the same time as the ACR (probably underestimated)

DO WANT

Melo Gang All Day

May 4, 2010 @ 07:29 PM
nostalgia

Post: 2805

Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: atlanta

And it'll beat a Ferrari GTO & Viper SRT10 ACR-X on the track, always loved Porsches. But this is way overpriced I'd rather fix up a Turbo and put more HP on.
May 4, 2010 @ 07:37 PM
bullets

Post: 346

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: Virginia

god i love porsches!
May 4, 2010 @ 07:39 PM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009

yeah it's gonna be like $300k but the fact they got something with that much power (not to mention torque) under 3000lbs is quite a feat. i have a feeling the 0-60 and ring times are underrated though. the 997.5 turbo has done 0-60 in 2.9 with pdk, i would think this could do it in at least 3.0 flat with a 6 speed.

Melo Gang All Day

May 4, 2010 @ 07:41 PM
nostalgia

Post: 2805

Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: atlanta

Oh def, and depends on the driver.
May 4, 2010 @ 11:26 PM
Koven

Post: 3589

Join Date: Aug 2009

very nice.....ill be happy with a regular turbo with the techart kit.

all I do is sip espressos and listen to AZ -mrelllis.tumblr.com

May 4, 2010 @ 11:48 PM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009

i still just want a GT3 RS before i die. anything else is icing on the cake.

Melo Gang All Day

May 5, 2010 @ 01:55 AM
Canvas08

Post: 2521

Join Date: Oct 2006

damn too bad im missing parade this year, i'm sure they are gonna have it up close and personal for pca members to check out
May 5, 2010 @ 03:29 AM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009

you're a pca member? lucky bastard.

Melo Gang All Day

May 5, 2010 @ 04:48 AM
Canvas08

Post: 2521

Join Date: Oct 2006

yeah this has been the first one I have missed in a while. been going since I was a wee lad. Got to drive the caymans before they were released one year, was pretty sweet.
May 5, 2010 @ 05:07 AM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009

you motherfucker, what porsches have your family owned?

Melo Gang All Day

May 5, 2010 @ 06:17 PM
Canvas08

Post: 2521

Join Date: Oct 2006

1969 911 E --> now full stripped club racer with a 3.8, slicks, big ass splitter that breaks on everything, <2900 lbs
1986 Carrera Cabriolet --> sold
1974 911 Targa --> sold
1998 993 C2S
1974 914-4 (bought with my own money. my personal auto-x car) --> sold
May 5, 2010 @ 08:14 PM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009

damn that's awesome. the 993 is what made me fall in love with porsches when i was little.

would love to see some pics of that 911e btw

Melo Gang All Day

May 5, 2010 @ 09:01 PM
Canvas08

Post: 2521

Join Date: Oct 2006

damn that's awesome. the 993 is what made me fall in love with porsches when i was little.

would love to see some pics of that 911e btw


yeah I got to drive the 993 at portland international raceway a couple years ago. tons of fun.

i'll try and find some pics of the race car
edit: pics found





i'm 20 and i'm still not allowed to drive this one
May 9, 2010 @ 12:14 AM
The Main Event

Post: 1429

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: NJ

yeah it's gonna be like $300k but the fact they got something with that much power (not to mention torque) under 3000lbs is quite a feat. i have a feeling the 0-60 and ring times are underrated though. the 997.5 turbo has done 0-60 in 2.9 with pdk, i would think this could do it in at least 3.0 flat with a 6 speed.


The Turbo has 4WD so it will get a better launch than the GT2RS, which will be RWD, though launch control could probably mitigate this to an extent. I'm guessing a high 2 second 0-60 time, as Porsche is notorious for underrating their factory performance claims. The car is very impressive, but also extremely overpriced. $300,000? Awesome performance I agree, but not at that price.
May 9, 2010 @ 01:31 AM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009

The Turbo has 4WD so it will get a better launch than the GT2RS, which will be RWD, though launch control could probably mitigate this to an extent. I'm guessing a high 2 second 0-60 time, as Porsche is notorious for underrating their factory performance claims. The car is very impressive, but also extremely overpriced. $300,000? Awesome performance I agree, but not at that price.


well if it weren't a limited production car, i would agree but only a few hundred examples will be made. a high 2 second time out of a rwd manual car is outstanding in my opinion

Melo Gang All Day

May 9, 2010 @ 06:07 AM
Canvas08

Post: 2521

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Turbo has 4WD so it will get a better launch than the GT2RS, which will be RWD, though launch control could probably mitigate this to an extent. I'm guessing a high 2 second 0-60 time, as Porsche is notorious for underrating their factory performance claims. The car is very impressive, but also extremely overpriced. $300,000? Awesome performance I agree, but not at that price.


i dont think you get the point of the gt2rs then
May 10, 2010 @ 01:28 AM
The Main Event

Post: 1429

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: NJ

^ Please then, enlightenment me as to the point of the GT2RS. It is still a 911, which means it is still an ass engined Nazi slotcar. When it comes down to it, the engine is still in the wrong place. It is amazing that Porsche has managed to keep the 911 competitive for this long, despite the disadvantages of its engine layout. This is the ultimate road going 911 up to this point (barring the GT1, which really doesn't count), I get that. Yes, its limited and yes it looks to have tremendous performance. However, it carries a $100k+ premium over the standard GT2 for what amounts to higher boost pressure, some weight loss and exclusivity. Not really worth it in my opinion. And then there's the fact that the Cayman's chassis is superior to the 911's, Porsche is just stubborn and won't give it the engines to outperform its older sibling. But that's a whole other issue.

But it runs 7:22 on the Nordschleife!! So does the Viper ACR, and for 1/3 of the price. Also I doubt the GT2RS will be a standard manual, it is more likely to only be offered with the PDK gearbox. Yes, for a RWD car its acceleration is very impressive, but I'm pretty sure it has a little help from a launch control system to achieve that.

I'm not saying I don't like the car, I just don't agree with its price. You could probably modify a regular GT2 to match or exceed the performance of the GT2RS for a cheaper price, all you would lack is the limited production status. Either way I'm curious to see what kind of numbers it puts up when the magazines get a hold of it, especially because I'd like to see how it compares against Ferrari's 599GTO.
May 10, 2010 @ 02:22 AM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009

main event, i thought we were car buddies, and you insult one of my favorite cars ever made. yes the 911 has its engine in the wrong place but part of its charm and uniqueness is that they can put it there and still have it be one of the best and most enjoyable cars to drive on the planet.

as for the gt2rs's price, porsche engineers are fairly conservative with their FI engines and i doubt they would simply crank up the boost on a turbo engine and drop it into the GT2RS and call it a day, i would expect some extensive upgrades to it to make sure it's a solid and reliable 620 hp

as for comparing it to the viper acr, the porsche is in a class of its own and i wouldn't be surprised if they ended up churning out even better times considering the GT2RS has 20 more hp and weighs 400 lbs less.

we don't know acceleration times but i would actually be surprised if porsche dropped PDK into the GT2RS considering the company's old school (and somewhat stubborn) views on manual transmissions. they refused to offer it on the gt3 and the gt3rs, i doubt it will change with this model.

you're right, you probably could upgrade the gt2 to match or surpass the gt2 rs, just like you could probably tune the gt3 to match or surpass the gt3 rs, but i think the people that can afford the gt2 rs could care less

the 599 gto is an incredible car but it costs an extra $150k, not sure if that would be a fair comparison, though i'm sure it would be a fun one.

Melo Gang All Day

May 10, 2010 @ 01:19 PM
The Main Event

Post: 1429

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: NJ

as for comparing it to the viper acr, the porsche is in a class of its own and i wouldn't be surprised if they ended up churning out even better times considering the GT2RS has 20 more hp and weighs 400 lbs less.


And now you've insulted one of my favorite cars ever made, the Viper ACR. Firstly, the ACR's power output is underrated, putting it closer to 640hp+ at the crank (1st link). Secondly, while the GT2RS may have a better power to weight ratio, that doesn't tell the entire story. If you wanna base claims off of pure numbers, than there should be no way that the Nissan GTR beats the 997 GT2 or the Carrera GT around the Nordschleife and yet it does. (Not that I'm implying 'Ring times are the end all be all of performance stats) Don't disregard the Viper ACR so easily, its lap times (2nd link) speak for themselves.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/21/dodge-viper-acr-on-dyno-more-power-than-advertised/

http://www.fastestlaps.com/car4737bc8924cc2.html

I concede the engine will likely get more than just a simple boost increase, but it won't need too much more than that. The 2011 Turbo S will make 530hp on 14.5psi, that's not very much boost at all. The GT2RS will probably up the boost to roughly 18psi, add a new exhaust, as well as more aggressive fuel maps and cams, then BAM! 620hp. The engine is very well built to start, there is no doubt it can handle 620hp with very little help.

As for PDK, I really wouldn't be surprised whether the GT2RS has it or not. I don't remember if it was an option for the GT2, obviously it never was on the GT3 range. The GT3 range is different though, they are the purists' 911, naturally aspirated with very little added technology. I'm not entirely sure which way this car will lean, but pure performance would favor the PDK.

As for the 599GTO comparison, it may not be fair from a price perspective but these are the newest heavy hitters from 2 sports car giants. The Enzo was significantly more expensive than the Carrera GT and yet they were constantly compared, hell there was even a 3 way comparison with the Ford GT IIRC. Truthfully a more accurate comparison would be with the eventual 458 Scuderia/Challenge Stradale/whatever they are calling its high performance variant, but that car will likely not arrive for another year or 2.

In closing, I do like Porsche and I respect the 911 very much, despite it still being an ass engined Nazi slot car. I just can't justify $300k for what turns out to be a slightly modified, limited production 997 GT2. I just don't value exclusivity as high as outright performance.
May 10, 2010 @ 01:53 PM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009

alright you win, though the GT-R's times were total bullshit, numerous magazines and websites have done tests comparing the gt-r to the gt2 and it DESTROYED the gt-r

oh and i never insulted the ACR, it's a great car and i never used any derogatory terms like "ass engined nazi slot car"

Melo Gang All Day

May 10, 2010 @ 02:12 PM
The Main Event

Post: 1429

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: NJ

alright you win, though the GT-R's times were total bullshit, numerous magazines and websites have done tests comparing the gt-r to the gt2 and it DESTROYED the gt-r

oh and i never insulted the ACR, it's a great car and i never used any derogatory terms like "ass engined nazi slot car"


"Ass engined Nazi slot car" is a term of endearment when I refer to the 911, as you said it has its own unique charm. I like to joke around with the 911 a lot because of its humble beginnings, I'm sure you know as well that it started life as simply an evolution of the VW Beetle. Nonetheless, it is a fantastic car and will go down as one of the most legendary badges in automotive history. I'm not trying to win anything though, just get my opinion across effectively. And yes I agree, those early test GTR's do not seem to be the same as the standard production cars, as newer models have not matched that level of performance in road tests. I was merely using the example to make the point that while important, power to weight ratio does not always indicate a car's true level of performance. I respect your opinions as a car guy and hopefully we can continue to have intelligent discussions on this side of the forum, too many damn ricers >sad
May 10, 2010 @ 02:26 PM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009

haha mos def my man, i still think there's no way the gt-r did that time without extensive upgrades though

Melo Gang All Day

May 10, 2010 @ 02:35 PM
The Main Event

Post: 1429

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: NJ

^ Rumors I have heard range from full racing slicks to large increases in boost pressure, possibly both. Not exactly surprising considering the other cars around that time are packing 100hp+ more than the GTR claims and are 400-500 lbs lighter
May 10, 2010 @ 02:37 PM
ClydeFrazier

Post: 6407

Join Date: Feb 2009

yeah i know. there's only so much a trick awd system and short gearing can do

Melo Gang All Day

May 10, 2010 @ 06:49 PM
Canvas08

Post: 2521

Join Date: Oct 2006

^ Please then, enlightenment me as to the point of the GT2RS. It is still a 911, which means it is still an ass engined Nazi slotcar. When it comes down to it, the engine is still in the wrong place. It is amazing that Porsche has managed to keep the 911 competitive for this long, despite the disadvantages of its engine layout. This is the ultimate road going 911 up to this point (barring the GT1, which really doesn't count), I get that. Yes, its limited and yes it looks to have tremendous performance. However, it carries a $100k+ premium over the standard GT2 for what amounts to higher boost pressure, some weight loss and exclusivity. Not really worth it in my opinion. And then there's the fact that the Cayman's chassis is superior to the 911's, Porsche is just stubborn and won't give it the engines to outperform its older sibling. But that's a whole other issue.

But it runs 7:22 on the Nordschleife!! So does the Viper ACR, and for 1/3 of the price. Also I doubt the GT2RS will be a standard manual, it is more likely to only be offered with the PDK gearbox. Yes, for a RWD car its acceleration is very impressive, but I'm pretty sure it has a little help from a launch control system to achieve that.

I'm not saying I don't like the car, I just don't agree with its price. You could probably modify a regular GT2 to match or exceed the performance of the GT2RS for a cheaper price, all you would lack is the limited production status. Either way I'm curious to see what kind of numbers it puts up when the magazines get a hold of it, especially because I'd like to see how it compares against Ferrari's 599GTO.


well the point of the gt2rs isn't launch times, it is on track performance, which it will be amazing at. And no porsche will definitely not give it pdk but it will be a 6 speed. Also modifying a gt3 to a gt3rs is about the same price as just buying a gt3rs so the gt2rs might very well be worth the premium.

and if you really think the engine is in the wrong place than it is pretty obvious you don't have much experience driving 911s. there is a huge reason why they are so successful in motorsport that you are missing out on.
May 10, 2010 @ 08:26 PM
The Main Event

Post: 1429

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: NJ

^ I never said the car was all about launch times, that just happens to be one of the few statistics that are actually available to judge the car by. It may have a PDK option, it may not, all we can do is guess. It does appear to be a track terror, but again so is the Viper ACR at 1/3 the price. And that is without mentioning cars like the Ariel Atom, which are little more than street legal racecars.

And no, I've never driven a 911 but I will stand by the statement that its engine is in the wrong place. Yes, the 911 has been very successful in motorsports but that does not at all mean that its engine layout is optimal. Believe me, I'm not missing out on anything, I know a fair bit about the 911's history and what its done in the automotive and motorsports worlds. However, it would be foolish to believe that a rear engined layout is superior to a mid engined one. Why would having worse weight balance be an advantage? Porsche has managed to make it work, I'll give them that but every major car publication has stated that the Cayman's mid engined chassis is superior. If given the same engines as the 911 the Cayman would surpass it, however Porsche will never allow it happen.

If a rear engined layout is preferable, why is it so rare? Why are the world's greatest road cars typically mid engined? Why would mid engined setups be preferred at the highest level of motorsport, including F1 and Le Mans Prototypes?

From a purely engineering point of view, the 911's engine is indeed in the wrong place.
May 10, 2010 @ 10:19 PM
Canvas08

Post: 2521

Join Date: Oct 2006

from a purely weight distribution standpoint it is in the wrong place. there are more factors involved in engineering a car. why do less manufacturers make rear engined cars? it is because it is very hard to make a design from scratch and porsche has been evolving the same design for ages. as someone who has driven mid and rear engined porsches in a competitive setting (914s, boxters, a cayman s and a variety of 911s) on a track setting I would rather have a 911 for the added rear wheel grip and the oversteer of a rear engined car.
May 11, 2010 @ 10:02 AM
The Main Event

Post: 1429

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: NJ

^ You are of course entitled to your own opinion and some people probably agree with you, but I feel the majority would disagree. The lack of weight (and consequently traction) on the front wheels can make for some hairy situations under braking, particularly when the heavy rear end wants to switch places with the front. A factor you left out is that rear engine layouts also limit your engine choices, because you can't fit something too large outside the wheelbase of the car. The flat six really might be the largest you can pull off, anything bigger would result in even worse weight balance.
May 11, 2010 @ 03:41 PM
Canvas08

Post: 2521

Join Date: Oct 2006

very true everything you said in that post. some drivers are good at controlling or prefer those twitchy situations under breaking. I'm not saying it is the best platform ever created but it is a very capable platform the way porsche developed it. and yes an 8 cylinder rear engined car would be stupid. and related to this, I was just talking to some representatives of porsche cars north america the other day, and they are very worried about the 458 gt3 car ferrari is developing for lms. they said the new rsr is going to be made just to be able to be faster than the ferrari and porsche will have to do something completely different than any rsr before it. you guys think they might actually be fielding a production version of the hybrid rsr in the near future?

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